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Hey folks, I've been looking for an alternate mini game for a while now. I'm having a look at FoW, been on the site, read a few batreps, had some sketchy rule explanations. So I'm thinking about taking the plunge and diving in. So a few things.

How expensive is 40k compared to 40k and WHFB?
Are the british any good? Specifically the scottish. Would love to be able to play as the Black Watch. Are there any rules for the Scottish Specifically?

What I'm after from this thread... Imagine I just walked in on your gaming group and asked about starting. What'd you tell me, what advice would you give me, etc. I'm a very very competitive player so I'd also need to know if I can play to a high standard with britain. But I have no idea what the "power level" so to speak (I hate that phrase) is like in FoW.

Anyway, thanks to anyone who helps :3

I would say FOW is cheaper than 40K or WHFB -- especially if you buy miniatures from different manufacturers.

In the North Africa midwar book the Scottisch get a special bapgpier rule which is interesting but doesn't have much game effect. I am not sure if there are special rules for Scots in late war (there aren't in Fortress Europe but I can't recall either way for the others).

I have seen the British do well in local tournaments. I am painting up a XXX Corps force for my clubs upcoming Markey Garden campaign but I am making it more historical than game powerful at the moment so I haven't really thought about the power level.

Ok then, so it's basically just the british army? I can live with that *quashes sovereign urges*.

Can you recommend some alternate producers? Preferably that ship to the UK

Quality Castings does some nice WWII figures...

Quality Castings by Old Glory

Peter Pig are well known and nicely detailed. Agis N. used them for his figures in the Gear Krieg rulebooks he's been doing recently. They're based in the UK so might well be your best bet.

Peter Pig

QRF are also UK based and do some good stuff.

Alright thanks guys!

So, on to other matters. How do British play on tabletop? =]

They grind a bit with their infantry and heavier tanks like the Churchill and Cromwell. They don't have the quick response of the Germans but likewise they aren't the damage soaking masses of the Russians. Like the Americans they occupy a middle ground technologically with their vehicles. Unlike the Americans however they've been in the war from the Get-Go... so their infantry is just as skilled and even more tenacious than the Wermacht.

The trick with Flames of War is that units will always have the same pertinent rules across all armies. What will differ is the morale and skill qualities of these units.

Good luck with the army dude. My best bit of advice is to pick a briefing you like (Tanks...infantry...motorized or recce?) and then build the models you like therein. You'll make it work but you'll enjoy it more if you like the models you're building and painting.

That'd be infantry. I hope it's a strong point of the british. Cause it's the image I like most. Maybe motorised but I understand that's expensive.

So, average troopers but well trained? Can live with that. Does the army play actively or reactively? I assume (common sense) infantry as a whole play the reactive game as they don't have the threat range to dictate the flow of the game the same way mobile units do. However what I understand is that British artillery is pretty god damn metal, and I suppose I can oppress people with that. I have always had a thing for artillery.

A slight realism point of view, is there a way to have it off the table? Y'know, cause it is artillery.

Depending on the theatre you use you can have almost any quality of infantry. The units just fighting for the first time are often Confident Trained, all the way to the desert verterans fighting in Normandy who are Reluctant Veteran, indicating they are very good but likely to quickly fall back feeling that they have already had more than their share of fighting.

The more terrain you have on the table, the more active a role infantry can play (playing historical scenarios can also help with this). British artillery is quite good and you can get a lot of it.

There is a rule called "Across the Volga" for having artillery off the table -- I fiind it is good for scenario games but it does make the points a bit wonky for tournament style games.

Something else to consider is that you will need to pick a time-period for the army you want to build. There are three main periods in Flames of War.

Battlefront began by producing Mid-War lists. The obvious reason for this is that the war is the most undecided in this period; the Axis still has momentum and the Allies are still reacting to the overwhelming speed of the initial German victories in Poland, France, Russia and Tunisia.

The second period released was Late War. The biggest difference here is the technological progression all the armies undergo meaning that units you would see but-rarely in Mid War you see all the time by the end as the nations pull out all the stops to end World War II. Your single Tiger 1E you had painted to support your Grenadiers in Mid War develops into whole platoons of beastly Panthers prowling the battlefield.

The final period currently scheduled for release with the first four briefings inbound is 'Blitzkrieg' for Early War. The Polish, German, British and French are to be contained in this Briefing book.

If I were to make a recommendation it would be to start with Mid War. It is (in my mind) the best fleshed out period and one of the more accessible as you will need less figures for the 'average' size game. Late War drops unit costs on most things to allow you to use large units of the more advanced tanks and guns.

Early war isn't actually out yet; but you could get in on the ground floor there if you'd like!

I think a British Infantry company (with some Motor elements and maybe a divisional unit or two of tanks or guns) would let you scratch the itch to paint and build most of the coolest stuff available to the commonwealth. Good luck!

If you're set on infantry I would consider a parachute or airlanding company.

While it's true the British, like the Americans are middle-ground wrt technology, the Americans are generally better equipped. By better equipped I mean they have lots and lots of bazookas. Unfortunately, the British don't get many PIATs, usually only one per platoon. Using paratroopers will allow you to use your infantry against tanks pretty effectively. Since they're fearless they'll usually pass the motivation test to assault the tank and they all get Gammon bombs which will actually allow them to do damage (they can even bail a tiger).

Otherwise, you'll be relying on your AT guns alone (which are good, i.e. 6pdr and 17pdr). British artillery is pretty good, but unless you have a medium battery (lots of points) it's not too useful against armour.

Parachute sounds pretty cool. So what're the FoW "Must have" units? Bear in mind I'm still working my way through the rulebook.

Edit: Just finished the rulebook. Whew, that was draining! I'm still kind of shaky on most of the rules. But looking at them infantry seem pretty solid, But sadly not so much British Infantry.

The British field some very tough armies. Their artillery is very nice (always take 8 gun batteries for the special rules), and both Paratroopers and Commandos are beasts.

If you are starting mid-war, pick up some british infantry and 25 pdr artillery. British infantry is very tough when you are defending an objective (as long as they are veterans). If your British infantry have to attack, ALWAYS use the night battle special rule.

6pdr anti-tank guns are a must. You can take the portee (on the back of trucks) ones, or the regular guns. In the game the portees are more manoeverable, and the guns can be dismounted.

British tanks are very average. The Sherman is a good mid-war tank, comparable to the Pz 3 or 4, but it is no tiger. The crusader is fast, has a reasonable punch, but very crunchy. Churchill Infantry Tanks are beasts. They are slow but have great armour, and a decent gun. I regularly field an entire Churchill company, and my oponents hate it.

Mortars are nice as well. They are OK at killing troops, but are great at smoking enemy 88's and Tigers. If they can't see you, they can't shoot you.

If you let us know what type of army you want- Tank/ Para/ Infantry/ Commando, we can give you some more advice.

Well, 51st Highlanders. That's what I'm after. Looking through their rules they only seem to be able to field an infantry company.

So that's what it'll be? (:

Archnomad wrote:Well, 51st Highlanders. That's what I'm after. Looking through their rules they only seem to be able to field an infantry company.

So that's what it'll be? (:

Not necessarily. The 51st Highland Division had armoured regiments in their divisional support, so if you want to field a tank company, you can. Just pick what you want for a Mid War 8th Army company from the North Africa sourcebook. I think there is also a Late War briefing for them on the BF website.

One of the things you'll learn with FOW is that the key to a good army is combined arms. You need a mix of infantry, armour, AT guns, artillery. You can get away with fielding an army with only a couple of those types, but if you field all tanks, or all infantry, you will heave problems.

Aircraft are rarely worthwhile. They are very hit and miss. I recently played my British Commandos against a German Grenadier (infantry) company. My opponent took priority air, who did not arrive on the battlefield until turn 6, because it stayed dark till then (planes don't fly at night).

Righty, well I'm still after an infantry company. For my starter 600pt list what would you recommend? I notice a fair few units get transports for free. Is there any reason to not take them?

Archnomad wrote:Righty, well I'm still after an infantry company. For my starter 600pt list what would you recommend? I notice a fair few units get transports for free. Is there any reason to not take them?

Don't take transports unless you really need them. You can choose to field them at the start of the game or not. They always count against you if they are destroyed, and never count for you on morale checks. They get a 5+ transport save instead of an armour save, and so they can be destroyed by small arms. Also if the transport gets destroyed all the stands in it are hit and have a 5+ save instead of their usual 3+ infantry save. If you are going to be moving where you won't get shot, then they are ok, and once you disembark, you can send them to the rear.

For a 600 point game you can either go as a motor company, or a rifle company.

I generally maximise the size of my platoons. Always take a PIAT, not a Boyes.

For a Rifle Company you have to take 3 platoons of infantry plus the command, which doesn't leave a lot for anything else.

A Motor comapny gives more flexability. You take 2 a motor platoons and a carrier platoon. Take a couple of 6pdrs and maybe some mortars.

What book are you taking the list from?

No offense hoosierclyde, but Motorised doesn't interest me at all. I play 40k and it's just mechmechmech, so I'd like some ground-pounding action for a change =]

Duncana. From here; http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/Briefings/Scots-Divisions.pdf

:S I just googled it.

British Infantry are very hard buggers to move in defense but at the same point they are just as good on the offense. I have Brit infantry, 3rd Infantry Division and Brit armor, 1st Polish Armored Div and by far the better of the two is the infantry force.

Besides artillery in max formations, also get some Machine Gun platoons in there as well because they can fire like artillery which can be invaluable. If you push late war, then 17lb'ers area must for all the big German cats that you find on the board.

Off the top off my head from that list I would go with
HQ 35
Rifle Platoon w/ 3 Squads 135
Rifle Platoon w/ 2 Squads 105
Pioneer Platoon 75
Mortar w/2 Sections 120
ATG w/2 sections 120
Total 590

I like the pioneers for small tables since the mine or wires can come in handy.

Archnomad wrote:No offense hoosierclyde, but Motorised doesn't interest me at all. I play 40k and it's just mechmechmech, so I'd like some ground-pounding action for a change =]

Duncana. From here; http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/Briefings/Scots-Divisions.pdf

:S I just googled it.

Mororised infantry in FoW plays nothing like Mechanised infantry in 40k, they really are two completely separate beasts. 50% of your trucks probably won't even be deployed on the table and whizzing up to the enemy to deliver short ranged firepower or assaults is extremely rare.

Where Motor Rifles really shine is one a huge board where there is a lot of manuvering. Unfortunately, given the tournanment heavy setting with few historical battles being fought, you rarely see this.

It's not so much an issue of playstyle, more theme. I've done transports to death and like I say, just want some groundpounding =]

So i'm thinking 51st highlanders, however...

I was looking at the paratrooper rules, if you take a paratrooper company can you drop in every game? This is another army idea I find very interesting, and I love the history.

Thanks for the great feedback so far folks!

There are special scenarios for the airborne landings.
In most scenarios they just fight as regular (though generally elite) infantry.

Thanks for the fast reply!

Are they CV? I forget and don't have the book personally. As I know 51st are RV. :3

All airborne troops are Fearless Veteran, not all of their of their support sections are though.