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Hi guys, I have a problem I hope you will be able to help me with. There is a player in my Local GW store who i suspect of cheating, and I wondered how you would confront him.
He is an overly nice guy who most people seem to like and play against, and one of the gamers I play, and have done for around six months. However over the last month I have noticed a few things about him.
Firstly was against his Tau army, It was a reasonable sized army but whilst playing it he claimed that this had this upgrade and that had that upgrade when ever it became apparant they needed it. He never has a list written up so it is impossible to check this. However during this game one of my friends was watching and after the game suggested that he had been dishonest, as I had never suspected him before I dismissed this. However next time I played him I noticed that he claimed he had more upgrades for things that he needed at the time, and when I commented he said he had dropped some of the upgrades from last time, which seems suspicious as they were so useful right? Anyway when I got home I wrote up his list and found that he was 150 pts over the 1.5k agreed limit.
So next time when I played his Tyranid Army I asked to see his list prior to the game, as I always show mine to my opponent, anyway he quickly wrote it up on his phone and showed it to me whch was fine, although I noted it was a little smaller than the one I was used to facing at 1.5k. However during the game he would claim this had this biomorph etc, which each time I would check as I could not remember everything his army had from the brief look I got at his phone, he would then make a big thing about getting his phone out and finding the list.
The first FOUR times I made him do this it turned out that he was wrong at that it didnt have that upgrade to which he would say, oh yeah I had to drop that for the zoanthropes, or oh that in my other list, anyway the fifth time he checked he was right and the genestealers did have toxin sacs, after FOUR times of being wrong. Anyway he proceeds to make a big deal out of this as if I was being unreasonable, so I just conceeded the game, and havent played him since.
However I feel the whole incident has left somewhat of a tarnish on my reputation within the GW store, which upsets me as I always got on with everyone before.
I have since seen him playing a lot of fantasy, and watched a game between him and another of my friends the other day at 2.5k and his list was:
Fateweaver, 6 fiends, 3 flamers, 30 bloodletters full command, 30 horrors full command, banner of sorcery, 30 daemonettes full command, skulltaker, a herald of tzeentch, herald of slaanesh and a herald of khorne.

Anayway, when I sat and totalled it up later I again found him to be around 150pts over, at least. I said nothing during the game, or to my friend, who lost btw, by a very narrow margin. But am not sure how to proceed from here. I am not only annoyed by his cheating but the fact he made me look like a tube during my game against his nids, any advice?

Bring it up. Confront him, but don't be too angry. Otherwise he can just write off whatever you say as "the crazy ranting guy". Bring a pad of paper with you to your next game, and have him write down his list and keep it on hand, to check his honesty. Oh, and constantly annoy him by mentioning "The Most Important Rule".

Great sig, btw.

Honesty is the best approach, if he asks you to play a game tell him simply that you will not play him as his lists are always wrong and usually over priced in points. That way your basically calling him a cheater without actually saying the word, cheater. Thats if you wanted to try and do it the friendly way.

Option b is more simply though "Sorry, I don't play with cheating scum that can't play by the rules" and then walk away
Option b is also likely to get him to thump you, so here's where the best bit comes in, sue him for damages, profit!!

Thankyou for your advice, I will definately not play him unless he has a properly written list in the future.
I just hope that other players start to notice this, as I dont want to bring it up, because usually things like that ending up making you look worse than the other person.

Always always always have your opponent show a list, that you can check on the spot. Its not to much to ask your opponent to have a written list. And anytime hes "wrong" you can just bring it up kindda obnoxiously loud so others can hear it. Or if thats not your style, make a joke out of it. Others will start to notice. You wont be that nagging guy, youll be the "hey I remember that one guy saying the same thing when HE played him" guy.

I never play against people that dont have a codex or a list. Its to easy to make an honest mistake, and even easier to cheat

There was a guy that did that at my LGS. just a shady, TFG kinda guy. Then when nobody wanted to play him for a while he sort of changed his ways.

It might take a little organization, but it's definitely the path of least resistance.

No list, no game. Simple.

A list on paper is best. I have been in the same spot. Oh yeah that has this or that when it came up. Or only the tanks that were about to get impoble would have track guards by some magical way. I started to nice and did the same thing. This was with the last IG dex but I knew most of it by heart and he was always always over and always would do the same thing. Things would have upgrades when they were needed.

He never had a list on paper and after awhile i just stopped playing with the guy. I could of said something and made a big deal about it yeah. But I found it alot easier to just not say anything. I just let it go and avoided playing him.

The guy kept doing what he was doing for awhile. But it didnt effect me anymore. I never played the guy. And slowly everyone else also stopped playing the guy as well.

The problem fixed itself threw its own nature as well as. I stayed on everyones good side. 40k is a very very social event. Keeping everyone happy with you is often better then just being right.

I actually became slightly closer to a few people threw that guy as everyone started to not like him so everyone had a little common ground at the least.

I would rather avoid one guy in a store then to be right and have people avoid me.

have you talked to the store personnel about him? they should be able to enforce that simple list on paper rule and then sticking too that list part. If he cant then he shouldnt be allowed to play there. he's played to long for these to be noob mistakes.

micahaphone wrote:Bring it up. Confront him, but don't be too angry. Otherwise he can just write off whatever you say as "the crazy ranting guy". Bring a pad of paper with you to your next game, and have him write down his list and keep it on hand, to check his honesty. Oh, and constantly annoy him by mentioning "The Most Important Rule".

Great sig, btw.

This. Why doesn't he write his army list with all upgrades mentioned clearly on a pad and paper? it takes like 10 minutes with a calculator and would solve this issue and get right to the truth of if your suspicions are true. Failing that you have every right to refuse to play him unless he does so. It's called good sportsmanship. I'm surprised your local store doesn't enforce pre-prepared on paper army lists before two people even agree to fight one another. Its been a must in every games workshop or independent store I've played at.

A Matter of Pride wrote:The problem fixed itself threw its own nature as well as. I stayed on everyones good side. 40k is a very very social event. Keeping everyone happy with you is often better then just being right.

This is exactly what I was thinking, thankyou.

And yes I agree that the store should enforce a 'written army list at all times' for gaming rule.

Guy was confronted today by two players who had played him yesterday at gaming night. Hes been found out.