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A buddy and I are playing a 16200 point apacolypse game. I am running Blood Angels and Ultra Marines using both codex. I am using Pedro Kantor and his special rule witch gives +1 attack to any friendly unit within 12". would that ability confere to the Blood Angels because in our game they are friendly units?

You are playing a ludricrimillion point game. Whatever you agree with your opponent goes, because GW does not have a paramilitary gestapo unit of TOs to kick in the door to your house, yet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
to clarify; the rules of 500 to 2500 were not written with to accommodate apocalypse, and as such much of it is a hodgepodge; consequently, come to an agreement with your opponent before play.

Please someone help me out here!!

NumberZero wrote: consequently, come to an agreement with your opponent before play.

Agreed on that.

Me and my mates are setting up a measly 6K vs 6K Apoc game (+1 superheavy on either side free) with 4 different races on each side for next weekend. We decided to not allow "friendly" to mean other than your own codex because we'll be playing with several people on each side too, some of who play once every year or more seldom. We thought it best if you only need worry about your own units - SoB Faith Points, IG Orders, CSM Psykers and summoned daemons etc...

If there's only two of you and both play armies you're familiar with then you'd remember the special rules. What you need to do is agree on whether it is fair that some units boost others - does the other side have anything like that, for example?

he is playing all CSM. And it is just the 2 of us.

As it has already been stated. GW does not provide any rules for allied play within their games. You will have to discuss it with your opponent before the game and if he agrees, then it's allowed. No one on these boards can tell you Yes or No to this question unless your opponent happens to reply to the thread.

Generally allies do not share rules.

Apocalypse covers special rules and team mates (one army's rules are not conferred upon their team mates) but stops short of covering what happens when it's one player's army that contains units from more than one codex... It mentions that you can build your army like that, but doesn't go into any detail on how it works.

I think though that it would be fairest, in light of the 'no conferring rules on team mates' rules, to restrict special rules to the owning army, not to allies... with the exception of Daemon- and Witch Hunter units allied through their codex rules rather than the Apocalypse setup.

You can do it either way, there are no real rules for allies.

If you do not share abilities between armies that keeps things nice and simple.
If you do share them, it can make for some really powerful and interesting combos - including some that are seriously broken, especially when combined with some of the more dodgy apoc assets.

Depends where you find the fun. If you want an easy laid back game (and I find apoc tends to be better if you keep it as straight forward as possible) then don't allow it. If you like apoc because it lets you come up with super combos to surprise your opponent then do it.

I have a query among similar lines, but not for apoc.

We usually play 2v2 as we all getting old and under the thumb, and when we can get the time (and permission!) together for a game it becomes an event and everyone wants to have a bash. Anyways, last game I ran guard and a situation came up where I wanted to use 'get back in the fight' on one of my teammate's Eldar units who had gone to ground. I figured that while being a fairly cheap move, it was legal, because the wording of the orders rules says you can use them on friendly units, not specifially friendly imperial guard units. My opponents were understandably a little bit sore about this but let me do it anyway, cheers dudes.

What do you guys think about this? Did I rip my mates off or just find a nice cheesy loophole to exploit? Am I a cheater, or just a bastard?

Scott-S6 wrote:You can do it either way, there are no real rules for allies.

If you do not share abilities between armies that keeps things nice and simple.
If you do share them, it can make for some really powerful and interesting combos - including some that are seriously broken, especially when combined with some of the more dodgy apoc assets.

Depends where you find the fun. If you want an easy laid back game (and I find apoc tends to be better if you keep it as straight forward as possible) then don't allow it. If you like apoc because it lets you come up with super combos to surprise your opponent then do it.

I've played games doing both. They each have thier fun monents. Niether one to me is good or bad. Just differnt.

Jimole wrote:What do you guys think about this? Did I rip my mates off or just find a nice cheesy loophole to exploit? Am I a cheater, or just a bastard?

There is no loophole to exploit because the rules simply don't cover team games outside of Apocalypse.

So if you're playing teams, and it's not an Apocalypse game, you're in the realm of house rules. How it works is therefore entirely up to you.


But personally, I would go with the same ruling as for Apocalypse... an army's special rules apply only to that army.

insaniak wrote:

Jimole wrote:What do you guys think about this? Am I a cheater, or just a bastard?

There is no loophole to exploit because the rules simply don't cover team games outside of Apocalypse. How it works is therefore entirely up to you.

IG helping some eldar stand up is probably not gamebreaking, but some other combos would be very nasty. Imagine Blood Angels and Eldar together... Oh, how people would cry at a Sanguinary Priest granting Wraithguard or Wraithlords Furious Charge AND Feel No Pain! I'd cry at seeing it too, TBH. And so would most other players, I suspect.

But as said, there are no guidelines as such. You need agree on it with the guys before the game.

Jimole wrote:I have a query among similar lines, but not for apoc.

We usually play 2v2 as we all getting old and under the thumb, and when we can get the time (and permission!) together for a game it becomes an event and everyone wants to have a bash. Anyways, last game I ran guard and a situation came up where I wanted to use 'get back in the fight' on one of my teammate's Eldar units who had gone to ground. I figured that while being a fairly cheap move, it was legal, because the wording of the orders rules says you can use them on friendly units, not specifially friendly imperial guard units. My opponents were understandably a little bit sore about this but let me do it anyway, cheers dudes.

What do you guys think about this? Did I rip my mates off or just find a nice cheesy loophole to exploit? Am I a cheater, or just a bastard?

At first we also ;played like that, but then when we had a team of ork, tyranid and marine playing together , who all would waagh and get FNP from the Tervigons, we decided friendly means your own army.

Alkasyn wrote:At first we also ;played like that, but then when we had a team of ork, tyranid and marine playing together , who all would waagh and get FNP from the Tervigons, we decided friendly means your own army.

They wouldn't get to Waaagh!... it applies specifically to Ork infantry.

insaniak wrote:They wouldn't get to Waaagh!... it applies specifically to Ork infantry.

Actually, it applies to Ork infantry with the "Waaagh!" special rule.

For example, Gretchin (including Runtherds) and Stormboyz don't get it.

As stated multiple times, there are no published rules to handle such large games. When playing large games, it is usually easiest to make allied forces somewhat independent with respect to "friendly unit" rules. Another approach, especially since his army is all one "army", limit "friendly unit" rules to 24" or on the same physical board. For instance, if you are using say 4 large (4' x 6') tables together, limit such rules to only affect allied units on the same board. This would represent that they are working together on that part of the larger battle plan.

Have fun!
Homer

Homer S wrote:Another approach, especially since his army is all one "army", limit "friendly unit" rules to 24" or on the same physical board. For instance, if you are using say 4 large (4' x 6') tables together, limit such rules to only affect allied units on the same board. This would represent that they are working together on that part of the larger battle plan.

Another consideration is ofc if there's only one army on one side of the table. That one will have all the flashiest units as well as all the rank and file from the same codex. And all will be designed to work together (if they have rules like that) or be strong on their own (fearless, stubborn, synapse etc). In such a case it might be fair to let two allied armies on the other side share some effects if within range. As they say... united we stand, divided we fall. One army designed to work together is often stronger than two that can't help each other beyond attacking the same targets.

And still, that's for the players to agree on.

SaintHazard wrote:Actually, it applies to Ork infantry with the "Waaagh!" special rule.

For example, Gretchin (including Runtherds) and Stormboyz don't get it.

Gretchin are not Orks (and are specifically excluded by the Waaagh! rule) and Stormboyz are not infantry.