Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi all, never done an Eldar list before but I've seen them played plenty of times so thought I'd try my hand at writing a 1750 Saim Hann army. Please be as critical as you like as I really have no idea whether or not I'm making the right army choices here.

HQ

Farseer - 155
- Fortune, Doom
- Runes of Warding
- Runes of Witnessing
- Spirit Stones

Seer Council - 186
- 5 x Warlocks
- 2 x Singing Spears
- 4 x Destructor
- 1 x Enhance

Wave Serpent - 100
- Shuriken cannon

ELITES

Howling Banshees - 155
- 7 x Banshees
- 1 x Exarch w/ Executioner and War Shout

Wave Serpent - 100
- Shuriken cannon

TROOPS

Dire Avengers - 89
- 5 x Dire Avengers
- 1 x Exarch w/ two shuriken catapults

Dire Avengers - 89
- 5 x Dire Avengers
- 1 x Exarch w/ two shuriken catapults

Guardian Jetbikes - 197
- 6 x Jetbikes
- 2 x Shuriken cannon
- Warlock

Guardian Jetbikes - 76
- 3 x Jetbikes
- Shuriken cannon

FAST ATTACK

Viper Squadron - 180
- 3 x Vipers w/ 2 x shuriken cannons

HEAVY SUPPORT

Falcon - 145
- Shuriiken cannon
- Pulse laser
- EML

Falcon - 145
- Shuriiken cannon
- Pulse laser
- EML

Fire Prism - 125
- Shuriken cannon

Total = 1742

This leaves me wth 30 points left to spend. I'm considering using it to upgrade the vehicles but don't really know what would be beneficial. I think Spirit Stones on the Serpents would be good to keep them moving, but what about Star/Vectored engines on the Prism/Falcons/Vipers? Worth it? Not really?

General strategy is to use the huge manouverability advantage of the Serpents/Jetbikes to get the Scorpions/Seer Council into assault ASAP. the jetbikes could also charge in to, as they're quite vulnerable to shooting seeing as there's only 3 of them...DA hide in the Falcons which circulate with the Vpers to target vehicles/groups of infantry with which to pound on with their S8 weaponry. DA in the Falcons also makes them scoring which is cool.

Possible changes: I thought of dropping the Scorpions and using the points to add a Warlock to each Jetbike squad to up their CC/survivability somewhat. If I go down this route I'll probably drop the Seer Council Serpent and mount them all on jetbikes instead, as one Wave Serpent won't last too long...

Thoughts, opinions and criticisms please!

L. Wrex

EDIT: Updated list slightly. Added Doom and Spirit Stones to the Farseer and got rid of Conceal on the Warlocks.

With the remaining points i would get four more scorpions and a singin spear for the farseer. Scorpion squad must be at full force if you want it to be resolutive.

Then try the list, if you see the vehicles need upgrading, cancel one of the bike squads.

Saim-hann is traditionally a jetbike army. This would be classified as a mech eldar army...

If you are going to take embolden on your warlocks (which you should be doing), then you don't need runes of witnessing. Just FYI.

I personally like Wave serpents more than I do falcons as transport. You're limiting your troop choice to fragile 6 man dire avenger squads when you could have a full unit.

Also the wave serpent just has good special rules. They both have BS3 for some stupid reason, so it's just that weapon your getting.

Fizzics wrote:Saim-hann is traditionally a jetbike army. This would be classified as a mech eldar army...

Yep, but I've got all the aspects that would be present in a Saim Hann army. Vipers, Jetbikes, Falcons, Serpents and Prisms. Basically anything that moves fast. You'll also notice that I haven't spammed Serpents w/ 10 man DA squads, and am actually taking Falcons. Both of these things take the army away from the 'cookie-cutter' Mech-dar list.

Fizzics wrote:If you are going to take embolden on your warlocks (which you should be doing), then you don't need runes of witnessing. Just FYI.

Why take Embolden? Re-rolling failed Leadership checks isn't all that important, and doesn't help when taking Psychic tests; something which Runes of Witnessing pretty much guarantees you'll pass.

Koski wrote:I personally like Wave serpents more than I do falcons as transport. You're limiting your troop choice to fragile 6 man dire avenger squads when you could have a full unit.

Yeah, Serpents are nice, but I'm not using my DA as most people do. I'm basically using them to make my Falcons scoring, as well as being able to throw some hurt out if they choose to disembark. Falcons are also pretty nasty, and not too expensive considering all the S8 weaponry on them.

L. Wrex

Drop one of the the powers on your seer. Probably guide, what will need the shooting assistance? Serpents and bikes are all TL. Definitely throw embolden on one of the locks.

Get rid of the DA exarchs and bladestorm. If they aren't coming out to shoot they don't need the extra fire power.

Very Important
If you want to get in CC asap, you need to put star engines on your CC vehicles, first turn move flat out then star engine for a whooping 36" move. You also need spirit stones on these vehicles so that you are guaranteed to move.

If you give an underslung cannon to your CC vehicles, they can stay near your CC units and provide nice support.

If you keep the scorpions give the exarch the infiltrate power, shadowstalker? It gives the serpent the ability to outflank. And it would help to beef the squad up.

Combine your jetbikes to one squad of 6 and one squad of 3. Keep the 3 man squad in reserve for last minute obj grabbing.

Lastly, if you take your vypers as vehicles, give them spirit stones so you never leave any behind if you get crew stunned result.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:

Fizzics wrote:If you are going to take embolden on your warlocks (which you should be doing), then you don't need runes of witnessing. Just FYI.

Why take Embolden? Re-rolling failed Leadership checks isn't all that important, and doesn't help when taking Psychic tests; something which Runes of Witnessing pretty much guarantees you'll pass.

Perhaps you are one of those lucky people that never gets caught in assault, or better yet, loses assault. You don't want your locks to run as soon as a big beater unit hits them. How are they going to hold up against TH/SS termies for example? You are going to want that re-roll.

Ok. Lets re-read what embolden says. You may re-roll ANY leadership check. Last time I checked, a psychic test was a leadership test.

Fizzics wrote:

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:

Fizzics wrote:If you are going to take embolden on your warlocks (which you should be doing), then you don't need runes of witnessing. Just FYI.

Why take Embolden? Re-rolling failed Leadership checks isn't all that important, and doesn't help when taking Psychic tests; something which Runes of Witnessing pretty much guarantees you'll pass.

Ok. Lets re-read what embolden says. You may re-roll ANY leadership check. Last time I checked, a psychic test was a leadership test.

@Lycaeus Wrex: Another reason to skip RunesofWitnessing: It actually increases your chance to get PerilsotWarp. I'm not good at the odds calculation, but it makes sense, add another die to the mix and the odds of popping snake-eyes or box cars goes up.

Not really. Witnessing means you roll 3 dice and remove the highest. Whilst yes, this may result in a double 1 coming up your Farseer has a Ghosthelm and thus negates Perisl on a 3+. It's practically impossible to fail a Psychic Test using RoW (you need to roll, 5,6,6 or 6,6,6).

The question I'd like to pose is; why would I not want to fail my Leadership and run with my Seer Council if fighting TH/SS? It's obviously a fight I'm not going to be able to win so it would be much better, I would have thought, to be fleeing in his assault phase (I'm most definetly not going to assault his Terminators) which leaves the Terminators open to be shot in my turn? Embolden simply keeps me locked in combat against a tough opponent throughout my turn, not something that I think is worth the sacrifice of a Destructor...

L. Wrex

EDIT: Made a few changes to the list. Dropped the Scorpions in favour of Banshees (who do more damage on a Doom'd target). Also dropped Guide on the Farseer. Dropped Bladestorm on the DA and gave the Exarch two shuriken catapults. Dropped the EML on the Vipers in favour of two shuriken cannons per vehicle. Combined one Jetbike squadron to 6 and gave them a Warlock. This unit will support the assault element whilst the 3-man unit will stay in reserve or fly around and make a nuisance of itself.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:Not really. Witnessing means you roll 3 dice and remove the highest. Whilst yes, this may result in a double 1 coming up your Farseer has a Ghosthelm and thus negates Perisl on a 3+. It's practically impossible to fail a Psychic Test using RoW (you need to roll, 5,6,6 or 6,6,6).
L. Wrex.

I know how all this works. Even though you 'remove the highest', the double 1s or 6s occur more often, so a 2, 6 and 6, still causes Perils (according to that first sentence on the RB's page 50), even though the 'test' was successful, because of RoWit.

And, despite the lovely Ghosthelm, a first success against Perils, must be rerolled, but you know that too?

I suppose it is a matter of choosing between More Success in Psychic Use vs. Safety from Perils.

Ghosthelm isn't a save. It's a prevention roll. Subtle difference I know, but I wanted to I could take the Farseer's 4+ invulnerable save and have to roll it twice (if I passed the first time), or I could take his Ghosthelm roll and only have to do it once on a 3+.

That's how I read it anyway. It's tantamount to rules lawyering really so I'll need to find the FAQ and see if its mentioned in there...

L. Wrex

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:
The question I'd like to pose is; why would I not want to fail my Leadership and run with my Seer Council if fighting TH/SS? It's obviously a fight I'm not going to be able to win so it would be much better, I would have thought, to be fleeing in his assault phase (I'm most definetly not going to assault his Terminators) which leaves the Terminators open to be shot in my turn? Embolden simply keeps me locked in combat against a tough opponent throughout my turn, not something that I think is worth the sacrifice of a Destructor...

Embolden says you MAY re-roll. You want to run, don't re-roll. Remember, also, that if you are below 1/2 strength you aren't going to rally. So choosing to stay in combat isn't always a bad thing.

Here's the thing. It is cheaper than RoW, and it makes you stubborn when you want to be. It keeps you on the board if you get shot up, or it helps you not be pinned when you get shot with sniper rifles.

Of course, it is up to you, but I don't understand why you wouldn't use it.