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WARNING!: Long Post

Dear Dakka Dakka,

Here is my Shooty & Magicky 'ard High Elves List. Let me know what you think.

Lords

Teclis

Heroes

159 pts Noble with BSB, Heavy Armor, Great Weapon, Shield, Long Bow, Banner of
Arcane Protection

185 pts Lvl 2 Mage, Dispel Scroll, Seer Staff of Saphery, High Magic

Core

675 pts Lothern Seaguard x 50, full command, shields
350 pts Lothern Seaguard x 25, full command, shields

Special

405 pts Phoenix Guard x 20, full command, Skeinsliver, banner of sorcery

Rare

600 pts Repeater Bolt thrower x 6
150 pts Great Eagle x 3

2999 pts total

First off, I realized I couldn't fit everything I wanted into my army and this is going to be a very small, elite, shooty/magicy army.

Here's the plan, Teclis and the BSB go in the unit of Phoenix Guard, they are going to be my center. The Phoenix Guard will serve as body guards to Teclis and the BSB. With the unit's banner I get +D3 PD in my magic phases and with Teclis that's +2D3 per casting phase and I believe because of Teclis +1D3 DD in the dispel phase. Also, the BSB's banner will make it so my Phoenix Guard take their ward saves against any magic at a 2+. They should be a pretty durable unit.

My 50 man Lothern Seaguard unit is going to be on one side of my Phoenix Guard. They are going to deploy in a 2 rows of 20 and the last 10 on the back. That way they can fire 45 shots per turn until the enemy gets too close, then they are going to quick reform into 10X5 with the musician. The lvl 2 mage will probably go in this unit.

The 25 man Lothern Seaguard are going to hold the other side of the Phoenix Guard's flank. They will deploy 10 wide with 5 on the back and shoot until the enemy gets too close, at which point they will quick reform with the musician and prepare to fight.

The RBT's will hopefully be on a hill behind my 3 units. If not, then they will just have to be placed accordingly per battle.

The Great Eagles are going to go warmachine and archer hunting.

I plan on using either the left corner or right corner as my deployment zone. I will be turtling up with my units. Using the side of the board should refuse that flank to my opponent. I'm not too worried about being run off the board as I'll have Teclis for General's Ld and my BSB near by to re-roll. They should stand there ground pretty well.

I should get first turn most of the time as I will be finished deploying before my opponent most of the time and I have the skeinsliver giving me +1 as well, for a +2 to go first. This is going to help me get more shooting and magic in.

So, basically, I move forward 1-5 inches depending on how far back my enemy has deployed and I cast some spells at the enemy and shoot. I will take the re-roll shooting spell from High Magic and the pheonix flames spell. Depending on the situation Teclis will most likely take Life or Shadow. I'm leaning towards shadow. That way I can cast the spell that lowers Toughness and focus fire on the unit wounding it on 2's hopefully. I hope to cause panic with shooting and cause units to run.

Then, I will start walking backwards while shooting and casting spells until the enemy units catch up with me. At which point I will reform and prepare for the charge. Meanwhile, when they do charge at me, I can stand and shoot and then they hit my wall of spears. The RBTs will focus on anything that's a big threat, including enemy war machines if I need to.

We'll see how it runs. I'm sure it will get modified as time goes by. I imagine this army will totally destroy the other army or be totally destroyed. I don't think they'll be much middle ground.

What do you think?

I think you should drop the other mage. Teclis is a power dice hog and the magic lores are so good that he can find 4 spells to cast a turn and getting them off ir is more important than casting more spells.

I would switch your second mage for Korhil, Stuuborn in the bock protecting Teclis is important and he is very effecient.

Post up and let us know how it goes.

There is also the slight issue that you can't have the dispel scroll and the seer staff as they are both arcane items, so you can't have both on the same toon. Unless there is some rule that I'm not aware of anyway

As miko3ed points out, the second mage is technically illegal. Personally, I like to take a secondary Lvl2 support mage with the Silver Wand and Ring of Fury. Despite Teclis being a power hog, it's nice, occasionally, to get off a spell or two with the second mage (one die for Ring of Fury is great, as it's dangerous enough to not be taken lightly and usually forces 1-2DD). (Note: Teclis only gives PD in your turn)

I would stress that High Elves should never take more than the minimum amount of points in Core simply 'cause of their lack of survivability.

RBT's are considerably less worthwhile in 8th Edition. While they remain the best shooting the High Elves have, 6 of them simply take up way too many points to be wortwhile. You'd be better off with 2 and investing those 400 points on more troops.

While magic can be devastating in this edition, you can't fully rely upon it. You need something with more punch than any of the units that you currently have.

Doh! I'll fix the lvl 2 mage. Thanks for the advice as well. I'm going to try the list as is, with the change to the mage and see what happens. After field testing it, I'll have a better idea of what to add/take away and your suggestions will be at the forefront of my mind. =)

Also, from what I understand Teclis gives D3 power/dispel dice in each phase per the Moon Staff of Lileath.

My thoughts with the magic phase were this. Teclis would casting the spell from shadow on a unit that lowers their Toughness by D3 and remains in play. Then the lvl 2 mage would cast the curse of arrow attraction on it and/or the phoenix flames spell. That way, when I focus fire my shooting on the unit it will be that much easier to wound them. With as many shots as I'm pumping out I should be able to completely destroy some units and definitely cause panic tests. Then when the enemy units get close Teclis would cast Ahkam's Mindrazor and I would be hitting with strength 8 spear elves hits. With a horde of spear elves that should be pretty devastating. And at the end of each magic phase I was going to cast drain Magic which would make it so the opponent would have to add 3 to the casting cost of their spells for a turn.

This probably does rely too much on magic, but my goal was to produce a list that relies on shooting and magic and see if I could pull it off lol. I plan on making some more balanced lists as well. =)

Huh, what do you know, you're right about Teclis. I've learned something new today. This is what happens when you don't normally run Named Characters in lists .

Let us know how the list plays out. Most of my advice is based off my personal experiences so far in 8th, but your mileage may vary.

Jin wrote:Huh, what do you know, you're right about Teclis. I've learned something new today. This is what happens when you don't normally run Named Characters in lists .

Let us know how the list plays out. Most of my advice is based off my personal experiences so far in 8th, but your mileage may vary.

Well, I do value your advice along with the others that have actually played games in 8th. All I can do at this time is theorize. In my head this all sounds good and fun, but of course I'll have to see how it survives contact with the enemy. I'd like to fit another mage in the list to be able to cast the life spell that buffs toughness. I'm sure my views will change when I first try this list out, unless of course, my theories are confirmed lol.

The only thing I can say definitely is that more than 2 mages (Teclis included) is a waste of points. Given that you'll be throwing 5-6 dice per spell with Teclis, you'll run out of PD pretty quickly.

What do you think about dropping the RBTs and adding in a bunch of archers or some more seaguard? I know that you all recommend special troops. I guess this is an experiment in seeing whether or not I can win with shooting. I know that S3 isn't that hot, but if you have 100 or so S3 shots per turn you should be able to take down anything, especially since you can still wound T10 on a 6.

On your BSB the Shield is useless if you have a great weapon.
drop 2-3 RBT that will give you plenty.
2 units of Seaguard is fine but make 1 a unit of 20 just in case you have watchtower scenario the other can be up to 30.
remaining points should be for larger unit of Pheonix guard or another special unit like Sword Masters.

Da_Viking wrote:On your BSB the Shield is useless if you have a great weapon.
drop 2-3 RBT that will give you plenty.
2 units of Seaguard is fine but make 1 a unit of 20 just in case you have watchtower scenario the other can be up to 30.
remaining points should be for larger unit of Pheonix guard or another special unit like Sword Masters.

Thanks for the tip on the BSB and the shield. I totally spaced that. Also, for the watch tower advice.

I know I'll probably change my mind about having so many seaguard, but I just think they are such a cool unit. They can shoot AND do CC. And 4-5 ranks of ASF, re-rollable spears doesn't seem like something to laugh at, hahaha. I'm going to try the list with the amount of seaguard when I get back, and then if they don't really work out, I'll swap them for more special units. I just bought a ton of models, so I should have the variety to try a couple of different lists.

Here's my updated list. I dropped all of my RBTs.

Lords

Teclis - probably shadow, maybe life, depends on the army really

Heroes

164 Noble, BSB, Reaver Bow, DA, GW,

165 Mage, lvl 2, Seer Staff of Saphery, High Magic - Shield of Saphery, Curse of Arrow Attraction, Drain Magic

Core

680 Lothern Seaguard x 50, FC, Scarcrow Banner (because I had the points)

675 Lothern Seaguard x 50, FC

285 Lothern Seaguard x 20, FC

Special

405 Phoenix Guard x 20, FC, Skeinsliver, Banner of Sorcery

Rare

150 Great Eagle x 3

total 2999

I know this looks crazy for not taking a bunch of special troops, but on paper it sounds amazing. Every turn I should be able to hit a unit that has been Withered and Curse of Arrow Attractioned with 85 re-rollable bow shots that will most likely be wounding on 2 or 3's. And I can keep walking backwards and firing until they reach me, at which point, I can stand and shoot and then they run into a wall of spears with at last one unit having S8 attacks because of Ahkam's Mindrazor.

I know this probably won't do well, but it just sounds so fun to do. But I will head all of your advice with the special troops selections once I actually get a chance to find out if this works or not lol.

Thanks again for all of the advice so far.

Due to the large amount of fire in this new Ed Dragon Armour is always a useful upgrade

Hey all, sorry if it looks like I wasn't grateful for the critiques and advice, because I am. =)

After talking with a few High Elves players who participated in 'Ard Boyz I've decided to change my list around. I'm going for a more CC themed army this time around. And being that Elves are M5 I'm thinking that I should be able to get into combat by turn 3 at the latest, quicker if my opponents come to me. Sorry for not including the exact points right now, I'll update it when I get back to my plywood shack, er, I mean room.

So, I'm still taking Teclis in a group of Phoenix Guard with Caradryan as a body guard. But I've dropped the lvl 2 mage as you all suggested. I've been told a few times now that the lvl 2 won't do anything in the game and a couple people have proven that. Teclis is a PD hog! lol

I dropped the Seaguard and took two units of Spearmen, FC. I'm thinking 49 in each and will run them 7x7 which still gives me 4 ranks of spears and probably steadfast against a lot of units. And I can always reform as necessary to get extra ranks. I chose 7x7 because it seems like a lot of people are running 5 wide ranks or the occasional horde. I can always reform to horde mode if I need to.

Then, I also took a unit of 25 white lions with the white lions captain. I know there is a lot of debate about swordmasters vs. white lions, and the reason I chose white lions over sword masters was their survivability in shooting, and thus getting to CC, vs. swordmasters. Whether or not 10 S6 attacks proves to be better than 15 S5 is yet to be seen for me. Anyone have field experience with this? I just think the lion pelts will help more lions get to combat where they will actually do the damage.

I also have 2 great eagles and 5 shadow warriors to mess with war machines. But like I said, my plan is to get in to CC asap, so I think this should handle it for harassing war machines.

Which Ard Boyz are you talking about? Cause the first round already took place, and I'm pretty sure there there aren't any gaming stores in Afghanistan.

djones520 wrote:Which Ard Boyz are you talking about? Cause the first round already took place, and I'm pretty sure there there aren't any gaming stores in Afghanistan.

I'm talking about the Taliban Open, duh! jk. I'm deployed here and I have the internet and have been talking with other HE players. So, I've been theorycrafting my list despite the fact that I missed the pre-lims. =D

Ahhh. I'm up at Manas myself. Bummed to miss the Ard Boyz this year as well.

I haven't gotten the rule book yet, so I'm not playing around with army lists to much yet till I get a better grasp of the new rules.

I just ran a Teclis list in the prelims (got 1st yay!) and I ran a lvl 2 mage as well, but as a Shadow mage as well, and it worked out great! The reasons being is that, first, I also gave him the seer staff and choose the spell that lowers the units Strength by D# (Awesome with Dwellers Below) and the default spell. That -D3 strength spell was amazing at drawing both dispel dice and scrolls and even though I only got it off a couple of times the entire event, it allowed teclis to get off alot more spells (as I didn't always have to try and get an irresistable) also the devault spell only needs a 3 to cast (so I could throw one dice at it), has a 48" range, and could reduce a units M,WS,BS, or I by D3 (very useful, Mv 1 dwarves ftw!) and perhaps most importantly, the lore of Shadow special rule, Smoke and Mirrors, is a great escape mechanism for Teclis. In my 3rd game a unit of dwaven Long Beards managed to overrun into Teclis's unit and my Shadow mage swapped places with him and saved his butt!

I'm a big fan of shadow myself, at least in theory crafting. That's pretty cool that you were able to make two mages work out. I'm probably going to try a bunch of lists out as I just got a ton of models lol. How did Life magic work out for you with Teclis over all? Was it mainly for the Dwellers Below?

Dwellers below was great, definately the bread and butter of the list, but several of the other spells have been a big help to. In this event Flesh to Stone was a lifesaver. In my first game against brettonians a unit of knights bounced off a unit of T7 Lotheran seaguard and in my last game getting +2 toughnes off on Teclis unit (his new unit since he swapped places with the other mage, kept him alive and allowed me to win the combat and overrun the unit. Shield of vines is great one my chariots (or the occasional eagle) especially only throne of vines is up and Wrath of the Forest has helped more then a few times. And in games past regrowth has brought the Phoenix guard unit from 5 all the way back to 20 .

REALLY fond of that lore.

Sounds like you had some really good experiences with the lore of Life. I'm really torn between Life and Shadow. I think I'll just have to play test them both.

Note that when you deploy a unit less then 10 wide with HE spears you get the front 4 ranks attacking. At 10 wide you get 5. Front 2 Ranks automatically +1 for Spears + for HE +1 for Horde wide. And if you charge you lose 1 rank.

If every model in your front rank is in b2b contact with an enemy model then you can get 50 Attacks with 50 HE Spear or SeaGuard. 10 wide x 5 deep.

In a 7x7 spread you get 28 attacks. And you are a nice target for a large template. or anything that goes through ranks.

In short do not dedicate yourself to being in one formation. Adapt to the army you are playing against.

@Da_Viking, I had considered that and I guess what I was thinking for the 7x7 was the ability to be steadfast, however, looking at the difference in attacks changed my mind. Besides, with my current iteration I won't have to worry about them being steadfast. So, thanks for the tip.

So, without further ado, I present my High Elves.

Lords
Teclis

Heroes
Caradryan
Korhil
154 Noble, BSB, DA, GW, Guardian Phoenix, Iron Curse Icon

Core
485 Spear Elves x 50, FC, Banner of Eternal Flame
280 Archers x 25, Musician

Special
480 Phoenix Guard x 25, FC, Banner of Sorcery, Skeinsliver
405 White Lions x 25, FC
225 Swordmasters x 15
80 Shadow Warriors x 5

Rare
100 Great Eagle x 2

2999 total

The plan is to have Teclis and Caradryan with the PG. And the BSB and Korhil with the Spear Elves. I haven't decided on the unit positions, I'll have to play a few games to see. But Korhil will make the Spear Elves stubborn and the BSB will give them a 6+ ward against war machines. I plan on having the units close enough to Teclis and the BSB so they benefit from the General's Ld and the BSB re-roll. The Archers will deploy 20x2 with 5 in the back and soften up units and reform into a block if someone comes after them so they can hold as long as possible. The Great Eagles and Shadow Warriors hunt war machines. I'm torn between Life and Shadow with Teclis. I'm leaning towards Shadow to get S8 attacks with the Spear Elves.

Aren't the guardian phoenix and the ironcurse icon, both enchanted items? Don't have my book on me at the moment to confirm.

I think you might be better off with lore of shadow on teclis, I'm headed that direction now.

Hey Sazzle,

I did a double take with the guardian phoenix and the iron curse icon myself when I was making the noble. But as it turns out one is a talisman and the other is an enchanted item, so it's all good.

In continuation of my comments above:

Rememeber you can reform and Move/shoot.

Take a leadership test to reform and then move (provided you have a musician) or shoot in new direction.

Since you do not need to charge and you get 1 extra rank when charged and still have ASF and a high initiative you can do a lot more.

Review the reform capabilities.

BTW I did play in Ard Boyz over the weekend and placed 1st with Daemons. Friend of mine placed 1st at another store with teclis High Elves with 3 massacres. And we played 2 practice games against each other. He won over Daemons. I won with Dwarf Gunline (9 War Machines).

I just think you should use lore of life with teclis 'cause then, with the flesh to stone spell you could dramatically increase the survivability of your spear elves. If you had s8 spear attacks, with only weapon skill 4 not all of them are guaranteed to get through. so if your elves are tied up in another round of combat then at least they've got a better chance of surviving. plus you can also bring them back to life which is fun javascript:emoticon('');

Renbags, I totally agree with you. After much debate and dicussion, I've settle on Lore of Life. =D My army has changed slightly even since my latest post about my army on this thread lol.

I dropped the archers, and made the spearelves into 50 seaguard. I made the PG and WL into hordes of 30 each. I put Cara, the BSB, and Teclis in with the WL (giving them a 4+ magic ward save, a 6+ war machine ward save, stubborn and fear). I put Khoril in with the PG (giving them stubborn and fear as well). The Seaguard are on their own at this point, but it's cool. The WL are flanked by the seaguard and the PG, and they all rush forward into glorious CC! =)

Just an fyi, if you play against war machine heavy dwarves or empire (especially empire) I would put teclis with the PG as the WL will get destroyed by cannons, volley guns, organ guns and Helstrom rockets.

Would Khorhil make as good of a body guard as Caradryan? I'm trying to spread the stubborn and fear accross both the PG and the WL.

Also, what if I cast the regen spell on the WL every turn with Teclis? Would that work out?