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As a disclaimer I am aware this is a heated topic and I am only trying to look at this from an analytical standpoint.


So, today I was sitting in the chow hall eating my lunch when I heard a fellow service member use the "n-" word, so I immediately look over to see a group of black service members eating together and joking about something or other, and I was on the verge of asking them not to say it again because I found it offensive. After thinking about it for a second I came to the conclusion that it's ridiculous that someone of a different background is asking people to stop using a term so incredibly derogatory to their entire race. If it's so offensive when someone else uses it, why is it okay for rappers and young men to use a term that was coined and used for at least a century in a degrading manner?

Between my friends I know we call each other such endearing terms as "fethface" and "asshat" but such names are only referring to the person and not to their ancestry. I know some people have used the justification, "It's our word." but I find that completely preposterous, if it's going to be in the general lexicon I don't see how you can change the meaning on a case by case basis. Personally I think if people want to be offended by it, then all should stop using it.

What does Dakka think?

I think it's a terrible thing when servicemen can say "Ni!" to old women.

Its one of those words that have evolved into another meaning. If you get angry and call a black person the -N- word, its really hateful. Theres no argument there, but Ive seen ALOT of close friends call each other that, both black and white. Hell I used to hang with a guy that called all his close friends nig. Not the N word per-say but still it could easily be mistaken for the bad one. I think really it depends on how its used.

Id never call anyone that, but thats what Ive gathered on it

If a word is bad, it's bad no matter who says it.

I don't call my white friends _____, or my mexican friends _____. Nor would I appreciate anyone saying any of the above.

The only hatred allowed is for Muslims, who want to kill or conquer all non-muslims.

kronk wrote:If a word is bad, it's bad no matter who says it.

I don't call my white friends _____, or my mexican friends _____. Nor would I appreciate anyone saying any of the above.

The only hatred allowed is for Muslims, who want to kill or conquer all non-muslims.

lol, wut. Muslims aren't even a race.



This about sums up the situation.

ShumaGorath wrote:

lol, wut. Muslims aren't even a race.

For the type of person that would write that sort of hate speech I don't think they really care to make distinctions...

CT GAMER wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

lol, wut. Muslims aren't even a race.

For the type of person that would write that sort of hate speech I don't think they really care to make distinctions...

I'm more concerned with the fact that his avatar and signature are the same thing. It's just bad visual design.

Meh. Just go read a book on non-muslims in Islamic states.

kronk wrote:If a word is bad, it's bad no matter who says it.

I don't call my white friends _____, or my mexican friends _____. Nor would I appreciate anyone saying any of the above.

The only hatred allowed is for a tiny minority of Muslims, who want to kill or conquer all non-muslims, the reasoning behind which has nothing at all to do with their faith

Fix'd.

Let's just say, if ignorance is bliss, you must surely be the happiest man on the planet.

kronk wrote:Meh. Just go read a book on non-muslims in Islamic states.

Change your signature so it's only text or has a different picture from your avatar.

kronk wrote:Meh. Just go read a book on non-muslims in Islamic states.

Go read a history on non-Christians in Christian states. Hell, read a history about non-Catholic Christians in a Catholic state or vice versa. Islam doesn't have a monopoly on treating nonbelievers badly.

IAmTheWalrus wrote:

What does Dakka think?

I think that a fair segment of African Americans find the word offensive when use this way as well, but like most things, opinions vary. The word was politicized and used by blacks as a way to disempower it, but it also simply became part of urban slang and the speech of black youth culture for it's shock value.

It is a charged word.

then again it is similar to the word "gay".

Some people say things like "that game is gay" or "don't be a cigarette" and think these are in no way potentially offensive to homosexuals because it is just slang or a part of youth vernacular that has been disassociated from homosexuality in some people's minds. Others see it as a homophobic word.

Perception is a powerful and varied thing.

kronk wrote:If a word is bad, it's bad no matter who says it.

I don't call my white friends _____, or my mexican friends _____. Nor would I appreciate anyone saying any of the above.

The only hatred allowed is for Muslims, who want to kill or conquer all non-muslims.

You're a genius.

IAmTheWalrus wrote:

kronk wrote:Meh. Just go read a book on non-muslims in Islamic states.

Go read a history on non-Christians in Christian states. Hell, read a history about non-Catholic Christians in a Catholic state or vice versa. Islam doesn't have a monopoly on treating nonbelievers badly.

I'm reading a book that was walking furniture and Cohen the Barbarian. Does that count?

Its quite good actually.

Pratchett is awesome. Have you read any of his 'City Watch' books yet, Frazzled? VERY good.

Albatross wrote:Pratchett is awesome. Have you read any of his 'City Watch' books yet, Frazzled? VERY good.

No Genghis Connie offered me the involuntary opportunity to read it it. This is Discworld lightning or something. Its actually quite good, sort of a fantasy version of Hitchiker's Guide light.

'The Light Fantastic'? Yeah, I love the 'Discworld' series - there's like a series-within-a-series about the City Watch of Ankh-Morpork. Excellent. They're his best books, in my opinion. They're basically fantasy cop novels - something which is pretty unique, as far as I'm aware.

Words have no meaning in themselves other than that ascribed to them by the speakers and listeners.

Albatross wrote:'The Light Fantastic'? Yeah, I love the 'Discworld' series - there's like a series-within-a-series about the City Watch of Ankh-Morpork. Excellent. They're his best books, in my opinion. They're basically fantasy cop novels - something which is pretty unique, as far as I'm aware.

I think thats it actually.

ShumaGorath wrote:
Change your signature so it's only text or has a different picture from your avatar.

Got it. That was a little redundant. Sorry.

kronk wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:
Change your signature so it's only text or has a different picture from your avatar.

Got it. That was a little redundant. Sorry.

Quite alright. Now we can all get back to berating your post instead!

Meh. Berate all you want. I'm not the one with my head burried in the sand.

Islamic doctrine teaches them to control, conquer, and kill non-muslims. Saying it ain't so doesn't change anything.

Meh. Berate all you want. I'm not the one with my head burried in the sand.

Muslims aren't even a race. You're the one with your head buried in something quite different then sand. I would assume (safely) that you have no idea what islamic doctrine teaches, likely because you simply have absolutely no contact with any of the source material personally. You're just blithering what you get in your freerepublic newsletter.

Funny, I had the pleasure of working with some Islamic people of great education, and they were more most insistent to the opposite, that Islam like christianity is a religion of peace and tolerance.

My one really close token black friend finds only the phrase "porch monkey" to be genuinely offensive. That and anything by Ms. Peachez.

"[see forum posting rules]," itself, no longer bears the connotation it once had. When some racist plantation owner used it to address his slaves, it meant "property," "inferiority" and possibly "monster". Which, of course, is not okay.

But think about it's evolved usage. Observe a group of urban youths conversing. In my experience, "[see forum posting rules]" is more akin to "friend" than anything else. It may have different connotations in rap (i.e. "Bustin caps in some [see forum posting rules]") which is understandable due to the inherent anger of that genre.

I think, really, that the biggest issue is that this group of people that cling to this word as an excuse to get angry. Worse yet, they can get angry, do worse than throw around a slur, and then make the other guy look guilty of a hate crime. It's inane. Like the slur "cracker" for whites.

You know what? Woe betide anyone who isn't white who I hear say cracker. You want some saltines? You best be asking for biscuits , mothafether.

See how dumb that was? Same thing, as far as I'm concerned.

The point to all this, is that while it's not appropriate or acceptable to go around calling blacks "[see forum posting rules]", Asians "chinks," gays "[see forum posting rules]," Hispanics, "wetbacks" or the people on Jersey Shore "Guidos," the taboo for these words should come from a deep seated intolerance for racism or biggotry, not the inverse racism any ethnic group creates by "owning" a word.

A word's intention is the only thing that really governs it's meaning (especially in the case of offensive words), but I've never understood the sense of entitlement to the word. I guess it may represent triumph over a horrifying situation. I stay away from derogatory terms as much as possible, as I actively despise racism on both sides of the fence.

At least it is only a derivative word, and it has no truly evil inspiration (So I can see how it could be used as a term of endearment to spite racists and bigots). It's nothing like the word 'f*ggot', for instance, which derived it's origins from the literal burning of homosexuals during the Middle Ages. That's much more horrifying in it's intention, yet it is widely accepted by the general public and commonly used as an insult towards anyone (especially males). Now that is a word that I'll never understand the usage of.

I casually use race-based derogitory terms to describe anyone I'm pissed off at. Including whites. I really don't see how it's any different to verbally abusing anyone with "normal" swearing. I'm sure a lot of people will have some sort of issue with this, but whatever.

If I'm annoyed at someone IRL, and I mean really annoyed, I'll swear at them. I might happen to throw in a racial slur or two, along with all the slurs about their face, intelligence, behaviour, etc. I just don't see why it's a big thing. Although, down here in my little corner of the world, we might have different attitudes , and there were never any black slaves here to begin with (making the N word largely toothless).

It's all about context.

When my girlfriends family uses the N word (and they do quite allot),it doesn't bother me,considering they are all African Americans.
When I'm called the N word by African American family/friends..I see it as a term of endearment.
When I hear it in a political/comedic context pertaining to social commentary...not offended.

But...If the word is coming out of a White guy with a swastika tattoo...or hell..in any Negative context...then I do have a problem with the word.

IAmTheWalrus wrote:If it's so offensive when someone else uses it, why is it okay for rappers and young men to use a term that was coined and used for at least a century in a degrading manner?

It's a process called "reclaiming." When young black men use that word amongst themselves, they are "reclaiming" the word -- taking it way from white people, and making it their own.

It's not the word itself that is offensive, its the context, because no combination of sounds can be offensive without context (except perhaps going "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" ala Dumb & Dumber). When a white person uses that word, it is assumed to mean "Hey you, the inferior third or even fourth class citizen over there, yes you, now listen to me or I and my white friends will grab a rope and string you up from that tree over yonder." Because for over a century white people both used that word to refer to black people, and engaged in the more or less legalized murder of black people via lynchings*.

When black people use it amongst themselves, the assumed meaning is more like "Hey you, remember when we used to have to live in fear of white people and were third or fourth class citizens, and how far we've come, to the point where this horrible word they used to demean us is now our property and we can use it as a friendly greeting just to annoy white people, as well as demand they never use it under any circumstances no matter how friendly we may be to them?"

If you're white, the the n-word is like a test. A test of how conscious of race issues you are, and how racially enlightened you are. If you have even a shred of a clue what has occurred in this country over the last 60 years and are mindful of modern racial politics, then you know that it is never appropriate to use that word, and that complaining about black people using it marks you as definitely ignorant and probably a closet racist. Which means that if you (I am presuming you are white), turned to those black guys and told them not to use that word, they would likely have assumed that you are a clueless and probably racist white idiot who thinks that Jim Crow is still in effect and that black people have some obligation to defer to white sensibilities. It would not have gone over well.

Now, white people can complain, and insist that this is somehow racist, and generally make fools of themselves, but all the whinging is just a demonstration of ignorance. In modern American society, white people who oppose racism do not use the n-word and do tolerate black people using it amongst themselves. Additionally, racially sensitive white people know better than to try to argue that black people shouldn't use it, they don't cite black community leaders who decry its usage, and generally accept that "It's a black thing, it's not your job to understand, just leave it well enough to be."

* Next time you think this country is not racist, remember that the white people in question may have been your own grandparents, and that lynchings were still happening all the way up until the 70s. Seriously. At least a few people reading this will never admit it, perhaps not even to themselves, but know that their own parents and grandparents were part of the racist majority that voted in favor of segregation, Jim Crow, and engaged in lynchings. All those tens of thousands racists didn't just vanish off the face of the earth when the Civil Rights Act was passed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Commander Endova wrote:I think, really, that the biggest issue is that this group of people that cling to this word as an excuse to get angry. Worse yet, they can get angry, do worse than throw around a slur, and then make the other guy look guilty of a hate crime. It's inane. Like the slur "cracker" for whites.

You know what? Woe betide anyone who isn't white who I hear say cracker. You want some saltines? You best be asking for biscuits , mothafether.

See how dumb that was? Same thing, as far as I'm concerned.

That is, frankly, an idiotic position. Cracker, and honkey, are both utterly toothless words that have never been seriously offensive to anyone.

More importantly, black people didn't bring white people to America in chains, spend centuries keeping them bound in slavery, rape and kill them, all with a legal imprimatur that only ended within the living memory of a large segment of the population.

Any time you think white people have as much to be angry about and offended about when it comes to "reverse racism," you're being a tool. History actually does matter. Try to remember that.

My friend Shakir(clearly a white male) and I slowly came upon a turth in life.
"Sometimes the worst word, is the only word to use."

For example, Ann Coulter is a c**t.

I would probally never use that word anywhere else, but it's true.