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so i've decided to write up rules for the outsider, so here it goes

The Outsider………………………………............550 points
WS 5 BS 3 S 8 T 8 W 5 I 6 A 4 LD 10 SV 3++
Type: monstrous creature
Weapons: none
Light Flayer: Range 36” Strength 6 AP 2 assault D6
Monstrous creature: attacks ignore armor and invulnerable saves and roll 2D6 for armor penetration
Immune to Natural Law: ignore difficult and impassible terrain. Also counts as having frag grenades
Manifestation: any model wishing to assault the C’Tan must first pass a leadership test at -2 to their moral.
Necrodermis: 3+ invulnerable save. If C’Tan is killed all models with in 2D6 inches takes a strength 7 hit with no armor save possible. If a weapon inflicts instant death the model is not removed but instead take one wound. C’Tan phase knifes are absorbed and the attacker is disarmed.
Fearless: is fearless and cannot be pinned
Above all others: cannot join units and may be picked out by shooting attacks.
Crazed: roll a D6. On a 3+ the Outsider is crazed and attacks the nearest unit even if it belongs to you
Insanity: any enemy units within 4D6 inches must pass a leadership test at -4 to leadership. If failed they are pinned until the test is passed

Questions and comments welcome

So basically it's an MC that can move anywhere it wants and has the potential to completely immobilize half the board for 550 points?

I'm guessing this is designed for apocalypse, right?

I don't quite see why this C'tan is 550 points, 190 points more than the Nightbringer (360)

heres why: Stats Comparisson:
WS: Nightbringer=6 Outsider=5
BS: N=4 O=3
S: N=10 O=8
T: N=8 O=8
W: N=5 O=5
I: N=4 O=6
A: N=5 O=4
LD: N=10 O=10
Sv: N=4++ O=3++

Comparing these the Nightbringer should cost more than the Outsider. With a higher WS,BS,S,A (which is right, as it is meant to be the most killy of all the C'Tan really) it outclasses the outsider in close combat and shooting accuracy.
The Outsider is only better Initiative wise, but has a higher Initiative than the Deceiver, which IMHO doesn't seem right. The deceiver afterall did trick everyone and their granny over the eons.
The 3++ save, although better than the other two C'Tan I agree with. It always seemed wrong to me that Wraiths got a better Invulnerable save than the C'Tan themselves.

So far then I can't see the justification of the 190 points increase on the Nightbringer. Lets look at the Special rules:

Light Flayer: Interesting. I like the idea of it, but wonder of a D6 weapon is the best way to go. I'd suggest setting a definite number of shots to it. Even an assault 4 weapon at AP3 would be reasonable for a C'Tan. I can see this as a souped up version of the Nightbringers Lightning Arc rule. Leave it at S6 to avoid it becoming to good, and the model becoming a gun platform.

Monstorous Creature, Immune to Natural Law, Fearless, Above All others: All fine and as they are in the codex

Necrodermis: Why is this much harsher when it explodes? An extra D6 and at S7? Are you trying to kill half the Necron army? I would argue that you should keep this as it is in the codex, rather than making it more dangerous for both players

Manifestation: I like this alot. The fact the Outsider is insane, and sends others insane means the -2 modifier really fits in with his character

Crazed: Hmmm. I see why you have put this in. But feel it is rather a problem for the Owning player. There is a one in three chance that during the first turns of the game (until you get near the enemy) your own units will receive a real mauling. A better idea might be to use a varient of Kharns rules, whereby in combat if he roles a 1 to hit the enemy model he automatically hits his own side? Or make it so he cannot sweeping advance the enemy unit if it breaks from combat becasue he is too busy talking to himself?
(If you keep this rule you may want to change the wording to, must charge and attack the nearest unit. At the moment it would only apply if he is in combat with his own units already. And also, what phase would this be rolled for in?)

Insanity: I would be tempted to say this should either be combined with the Manifestation rule to make all units within x inches have a minus 2 leadership modifier regardless of charging the C'tan. Or say that if a unit fails a leadership test it attacks itself?
If you go for the later option, think carefully about a -4 modifier, this could be combined with the Pariah's Soulless rule to make enemy units LD3. A lethal and amusing combo, but arguably unfair/cheesy.


In conclusion, I think you have got the Stats about right, maybe just reduce the Initiative by 1. I don't howvere think the points are accurate, the model posses more threat to the players own army at the moment than the enemy's. As a result I don't see any player choosing this 550 point model over a 360 point model which does a better job at killing the nemy rather than themselves.

I hope that didn't come across to harshly. And if it did my appologies. If you wnat to discuss this anymore feel free to PM me

i kinda agree actually, but i figured he'd strike faster the the deceiver because it states in the codex the deceiver is the weakest of all the C'Tan while the outsider is the most insane either because of the laughing god or the deceiver so i figured he'd strike faster. also the crazed is more or less borrowed from codex chaos dreadnought rules and it make since in a way. the D6 attacks means it's random thus not over powered also i figured his insanity would be a contributing factor in this

The fluff doesn't really support this though...

The only 3 C'Tan alive are the Void Dragon, the Deceiver, and the NightBringer.

grayspark wrote:The fluff doesn't really support this though...

The only 3 C'Tan alive are the Void Dragon, the Deceiver, and the NightBringer.

not true please reread codex necrons. The Outsider is alive just outside of the galaxy at the moment

maybe replace crazed with a table you roll on every turn...d6
Its madness surges to the fore, momentarily distorting perceptions
1..Outsider must fire at closest unit, friend or foe
Pausing amidst the din of battle, the Outsider finds itself contemplating its own madness, causing reality itself to twist and tear
2...Outsider may not move, shoot, run, or assault, but models affected by his abilities are at a further -1ld, and the range is doubled. If the Outsider is assaulted before his next turn, he makes a single CC attack at Init10, placing the large blast template over the center of the model. A hit is inflicted for each model underneath, with the Outsider rolling his Ld against the enemy Ld to wound. No armor saves may be taken.
Some unguessable emotion flickers across it's mind, the desire to rend and tear, or perhaps simple curiosity about the internal workings of it's foes
3.. Outsider becomes fleet, must move, run, and assault closest enemy unit, unless he is in combat already... if this is the case add d6 additional attacks, and he takes a wound
4-6... Outsider may act normally

It kinda fits the whole random craziness thing, but it does different stuff, rather than just the shooting

Bromsy wrote:maybe replace crazed with a table you roll on every turn...d6
Its madness surges to the fore, momentarily distorting perceptions
1..Outsider must fire at closest unit, friend or foe
Pausing amidst the din of battle, the Outsider finds itself contemplating its own madness, causing reality itself to twist and tear
2...Outsider may not move, shoot, run, or assault, but models affected by his abilities are at a further -1ld, and the range is doubled. If the Outsider is assaulted before his next turn, he makes a single CC attack at Init10, placing the large blast template over the center of the model. A hit is inflicted for each model underneath, with the Outsider rolling his Ld against the enemy Ld to wound. No armor saves may be taken.
Some unguessable emotion flickers across it's mind, the desire to rend and tear, or perhaps simple curiosity about the internal workings of it's foes
3.. Outsider becomes fleet, must move, run, and assault closest enemy unit, unless he is in combat already... if this is the case add d6 additional attacks, and he takes a wound
4-6... Outsider may act normally

It kinda fits the whole random craziness thing, but it does different stuff, rather than just the shooting

i like this alot, good work