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The MR rules in the 8th Ed. rulebook state that MR adds (or creates) a ward save vs. spell damage.

Am I correct in thinking that this doesn't apply to the spells that have a removed-from-play effect (instead of an effect that causes wounds), like Purple Sun &c.?

If so -- do you forgo things like MR banners in your list construction?

Thanks!

Correct, only applies to wounds. Probably, MR not quite as good anymore.

Looks like no save, as the spells usually specify it. Located in this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/311303.page

Thanks all.

You can only make saves against wounds, therefore anything which doesnt cause wounds (and just removes models) ignores ward saves, and therefore MR.

MR is now a lot better than before - with the "target" requirement in 7th a lot of spells which caused wounds, like Winds, entirley bypassed it. IT also makes more sense - an MR unit shouldnt protect (potentially) everyone, like it could do before.

nosferatu1001 wrote:You can only make saves against wounds, therefore anything which doesnt cause wounds (and just removes models) ignores ward saves, and therefore MR.

MR is now a lot better than before - with the "target" requirement in 7th a lot of spells which caused wounds, like Winds, entirley bypassed it. IT also makes more sense - an MR unit shouldnt protect (potentially) everyone, like it could do before.

I'm going to strongly disagree. While in many cases in 7th, MR was entirely bypassed by the "target" requirement, now there are many spells which clearly affect a unit, but do not cause "wounds", so the magic resistance has no effect. At best, this is a wash (the old arbitrary restriction replaced by a new arbitrary restriction), but IMHO, it's worse.

First, from the perspective of the "fluff", a resistance to magic that makes you able to shrug off fireballs, or spears of amber force, or beams of radiance, seems (again, to me) to be the type of thing that would protect you from being transformed into gold, or a skaven. It also seems like the sort of thing that would protect you from various curses and hexes. If anything, from a fluff perspective, magically resistant creatures should be MORE likely to resist attempts to transform or affect them directly by magic, than attempts to harm them by magically summoning mundane but damaging conditions, like fire. Of course, any fluff argument about magic is going to be personal opinion, but "These daemons are highly resistant to magic! Transform them into skaven, then, Grey Seer!" seems like a weird idea.

Second, I haven't counted them, but my perception is that the number of spells which have negative and non-magic resistable effects in 8th greatly outnumber the spells which affected a unit but didn't target it in 7th. If that's the case, then magic resistance is less effective, simply by virtue of being effective against fewer spells.

Finally, Magic Resistance was often the only protection that some units (or indeed some armies...looking at my Khorne Daemon army) had from magical attack. Given the wide variety of very destructive or effective spells that bypass magic resistance, those units don't get nearly as much protection, but still cost just as much as they did before.

Except that the vast number of effects you are likely to see are still direct damage, ie wound causers, and so your khornate daemons (i.e. flesh hounds) now have a 2+ ward against them.

MR as a concept is a tricky one to balance; the old original 7th ed version meant you had one MR3 unit that could potentially protect an entire army, but required a break in the spell casting rules (as you needed to work out what was effected before choosing to dispel, which was illegal) to do so; this then changed to "target", which allowed a vast number of spells to entirely bypass it.

8th ed makes more sense but is not perfect - but you cant have two mechanisms, as part of 8th is removal of the vast bulk of annoying conditional rules that were too granular. So they went with the obvious one - ward saves.