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Dear Dakka Dakka,

There seems to be a popular opinion on the forums right now that shooting isn't as good in 8th edition because of cover. I know that the BRB says to put at least D6+4 pieces of terrain down on the board and I can see how that would offer a lot more cover than previous editions.

However, I'd like to here what you have to say from your table top experience on the board. Has cover and D6+4 pieces of terrain really nerfed shooting as much as I am to believe?

Also, anyone with RBT (HE or DE) experience in the edition, how have those performed for you?

Thanks.

Respectfully,
DarkAngelHopeful

BS based shooting has indeed been more difficult, while war machines (especially mortars) have gained the most.

Surprisingly I have found out that shooting from skirmishers (especially scouts ie chameleon skinks) and from my pistoliers have been more effective, as these units manage to get into position much better than before...although they also get vaporized easier too....

However, if you really put in a lot of archers, the ability to volley fire may help put BS shooting to be more effective, although by doing so you have less assault units....

freddieyu1 wrote:However, if you really put in a lot of archers, the ability to volley fire may help put BS shooting to be more effective, although by doing so you have less assault units....

With the exception of Orcs & Goblins, who can get a lot of mileage from Arrer Boyz, which are very close to an assault unit. I've played a 1000 point tournament (3 games) and a 1500 point one off game with Arrer Boyz, because I wanted to see how the 8th ed changes affected them in practice, and because I've got 50 of the buggers from a couple of the 6th edition starter set. I ran them two different ways, and while Arrer Boyz are substantially different from most other archer units, I think both ways could be applicable to archers in other armies.

Arrer Boyz as combat unit: For the price of an orc with LA, Choppa, and Shield, you get an orc with LA, Choppa, and Bow. That's a mild loss of survivability for a mild gain in ranged combat power. T4 and the Choppa make the Arrers a non-trivial combat unit, and give them a combat edge over other archers.

Usage #1: 12 Orcs, 6x2. This unit is cheap and small, but large enough to negate ranks and deliver 12 attacks in combat. I think this kind of unit works well supporting any sort of major combat block. it can move up beside the combat block and put arrows into opposing units for a couple turns. Prime targets for me are units like swordmasters and bloodletters, ie, stuff that will bring the pain if they hit at full strength. I notice that even doing just one wound a turn is very useful, because it's one less wound you'll have to kill in combat before you get to someone important (ranks or guys that can attack).

Usage #2: 50 Orcs, 10x5. This was overkill, 40 would have been plenty in my 1500 point game. I was often moving with this unit, and didn't often get volley fire off, but it was still quite capable of doing meaningful damage. Fighting in 3 ranks made it pretty similar to a non-horde unit of Orcs with 2 choppas, which is a great unit. The bows just gave a little added tactical flexibility. The targets were the same as the smaller unit (nasty close combat troops).

The Important Part: Missile troops gave me some nice tactical flexibility, especially because of the musician's quick reform. What they really allowed me to do was engage enemy combat units on my terms, because I could move forward and backward, shooting when necessary and charging when advantageous. They were useful as both combat and ranged units. Most shooting happened as either my units or the enemy units were closing in, angling to set up charges, counter charges, and flank charges. Shooting allowed me to bide my time in these close range maneuver wars, damaging without committing troops to a charge. Because of the nature of the shooting, it was often at close range and cover was rarely an issue. I could see, however, how long range "artillery" bow fire wouldn't do as well.

Although my experiences are Orc specific, I think all 3 elf armies, and possibly dwarves (I'm not sure if they have weapons they can fire on the move) could make use of similar units. Elves, High Elves especially could make a 10x3 archer unit. That would give them 20 shots on the move, 25 in volley fire, and 3 ranks of ASF/rerolling attacks (albeit unremarkable ones). The 10x3 formation isn't especially vulnerable to blasts either, because it's so thin. It can take some casualties and still fight at close to full capability. Any army that can field mobile missile troops could make use of a 5-7x2 formation of missile troops. They won't cost much, and can do the rank-negating flank charge when a main line unit is in combat. I think the key with any of these units is to find a way to make use of both their close combat and ranged combat power.

That's just my limited experience.

DE repeater crossbowman are awesome now. 2 shots a piece with AP and will always wound on a 6..... good stuff.

evolvingeye wrote:DE repeater crossbowman are awesome now. 2 shots a piece with AP and will always wound on a 6..... good stuff.

Indeed...those DE xbow units are my number #1 target for my empire mortars....great mortar fodder...

DE crossbowmen are cray-zay (but I guess they were before, too). I played a team game and they vaporized a lot of my partner's WoC light units...

I've faced a cannon, which hurt like hell and doesn't suffer from cover modifiers, but also can scatter / misfire / stick in the ground without a bounce / etc. I haven't gotten a whole lot of cover modifiers so far, but if you put out the amount of terrain requested, you should be getting a lot. We use the built-in hills on the GW boards to count as terrain pieces, so that lower the amount on the table.

So, all that to say I'm not sure yet! I think units get into combat a bit faster than before, so there's less chance to shoot, but at the same time more models are available to shoot from rear ranks. I think it's sort of a wash, depending on the situation. Obviously a cover-heavy table should help the assault armies more! Since you can move most units through it without penalty (unless it turns into something magical and scary ) now...