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Hi dakka people,

You might of noticed that I've been posting a lot about improving my army. I'm here to that again

I want to buy something with heavy weapons for my 1,500 point army. I have 204 points left to spend and I have narrowed my choices down to 2 options: Predator Annihilator with lascannon sponsons, HK and stormbolter or a standard dreadnought with missile launcher and TL lascannon

Dread

Pros - 5 points cheaper than the Pred, assaults are dealt to the front because its a walker, choice of weaponry, smaller than a tank so it can benefit from cover more, they look cool
Cons - Fills my last elite slot, expensive [as in money] for a small model, front armour isn't as good as the Pred

Pred Annihilator

Pros - lots of firepower, can ram and tank shock, can remove weapons and use as a rhino, better front armour

Cons - 5 more points, attracts a lot of firepower, assaults are done to the back, where the armour is only 10, worse side armour, large target, won't benefit from cover as easily, only 3 types of main weapons come with it

If any of you have played game using these, which would you say is better? I mainly play against space marines armies and eldar

Stupid GW, so hard on the wallet.

Neither?
I would suggest the AC/LC pred or the Dread combos of:
2 TL Auto Cannons or MM/HF in pod.

Whatever you choose, I highly recommend magnitizing the weapons.

I agree completely with Sanctjud. Especially on the magnetizing front. I have two Preds with fully magnetized options and I regularly field them as AC/LC or AC/HB depending on the scenario and whim of the day.

Also, drop the storm bolter on the pred, especially if you go for a full annihilator. the storm bolter is never going to hurt the targets you will be shooting at, so that is 10 points better spent elsewhere. The HK missile is more of judgment call. I don't like them, but sometimes they come in handy. YMMV. I'd get rid of it and spent 20 points upgrading some other unit.

But the bottom line is you should magnetize them so you can change your mind later.

Kolath wrote:I agree completely with Sanctjud. Especially on the magnetizing front. I have two Preds with fully magnetized options and I regularly field them as AC/LC or AC/HB depending on the scenario and whim of the day.

Also, drop the storm bolter on the pred, especially if you go for a full annihilator. the storm bolter is never going to hurt the targets you will be shooting at, so that is 10 points better spent elsewhere. The HK missile is more of judgment call. I don't like them, but sometimes they come in handy. YMMV. I'd get rid of it and spent 20 points upgrading some other unit.

But the bottom line is you should magnetize them so you can change your mind later.

Thanks for the help guys, but I'm worried about the Pred attracting loads of firepower. I will soon be playing against eldar, but I'm worried that lances will tear apart my predator. I'm not too sure about the pred because i already have a dev squad with 2 lascannons, missile and plasma cannon, a razorback, a dread with MM

well honestly it would depend on the rest of your list mainly because either choice might not support or be fluid with the rest of your army. however if i had to choose without knowing the rest of the list id go with the mm/hf dread in a pod.

well, your Devestator Loadout is terrible. Dev boxs, IMO, are so you can get all the heavy weapon options for your Tac squads.


a Sniper Dred(Lascannon/missile) works best in tandem with 2 Riflemen Dreds(2 Autocannons) the whole package works best if you have a MOTF allowing you to take 3 more dreds(OR use one Elite slot for a Squad of Terminators and have 1 dred be HS)


Tri-Lascannon Preds are expensive for what they do. if the Pred moves it can't fire to full effect, it can only fire to full effect to the direct front and it is fairly easy to kill. all 3 things are something a Dred can do better. Dreds can move and fire 2 weapons, the dred can rotate in the shooting phase, and the dred can hide in cover easier(AV12 with 4+ cover is more durable then straight AV13)

also, the dred won't be losing AV effectivness to a Brightlance.




it does really depend on the rest of your list. what else do you have in your Elite slots? HS? FA? what is the focus of the army, Shooty or fighty?

Help us help you

I'm going to go against the majority here and say the dreadnought. The dread is a more aggressive unit because it shoots and fights in close combat, has stronger mobility options, has weapons that sync with vulkan, and has only slightly worse armor. While as a general rule I advocate specialization over flexibility I think in this case the dreadnought is so much more flexible than the predator that it's added options make up for it's limited ability at shooting. Dreads can be magnatized without much of a problem.
AF


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also as templar pointed out the dread can move and shoot to full effect; the predator's firepower is often limited by its own bulk (only 2 of its 3 guns can shoot at targets significantly to the left or right) and often has to move, and thus give up some of its shooting, to get into position.

Both!

Three dreads and three preds!

I use Two dreads in drop pods, and two preds in my list, it works out pretty well.

I agree with AF, except I would invest in the Ironclad instead of the regular Dreadnought.

Stronger AV, and the best at CC amongst other Dreadnoughts. I outfit them with a Heavy Flamer, 2 HK Missiles, and a Drop Pod. They also come stock with Extra Armor. This will total to 200 Points.

You're Predator Annihilator, as you outfitted it earlier comes to 185 points, which is just a bit cheaper. I think in the end though, you'll be happier with your results.

And don't worry so much about taking up your last Elite slot. If you only had 2 to field in the beginning, then you're still not losing anything.

My vote's been cast. Good luck.

I've always preferred dreads because they can hide first turn and then move and fire to full effect on turn one. They are also cheaper and can tie up a unit in combat if you need them to.

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:I've always preferred dreads because they can hide first turn and then move and fire to full effect on turn one. They are also cheaper and can tie up a unit in combat if you need them to.

Best thing to throw at a Blood Angels Death Company = Ironclad Dreadnought (My Ironclad holds an 8/1 record against Death Company thus far)

My favored choice isn't in the list.

2 typhoon speeders with HBs. Twice as big a boost to your AT firepower as the other choices, plus massive troop-killing power.

Rurouni Benshin wrote:
Best thing to throw at a Blood Angels Death Company = Ironclad Dreadnought (My Ironclad holds an 8/1 record against Death Company thus far)

Though you are helping to prove my point I can't help but notice that your friends don't know how to use their DC...

Flavius Infernus wrote:My favored choice isn't in the list.

2 typhoon speeders with HBs. Twice as big a boost to your AT firepower as the other choices, plus massive troop-killing power.

you sir get OVER 9000 Internets

Black waves should drop his Devestator squad for these bad boys. More, cheaper, firepower.

Both are nice but I like AV13 in backfield with lascannon sponsons. Yes more specialised but for stopping transports it that or rifleman TLAC Dreads

Grey Templar wrote:well, your Devestator Loadout is terrible. Dev boxs, IMO, are so you can get all the heavy weapon options for your Tac squads.


a Sniper Dred(Lascannon/missile) works best in tandem with 2 Riflemen Dreds(2 Autocannons) the whole package works best if you have a MOTF allowing you to take 3 more dreds(OR use one Elite slot for a Squad of Terminators and have 1 dred be HS)


Tri-Lascannon Preds are expensive for what they do. if the Pred moves it can't fire to full effect, it can only fire to full effect to the direct front and it is fairly easy to kill. all 3 things are something a Dred can do better. Dreds can move and fire 2 weapons, the dred can rotate in the shooting phase, and the dred can hide in cover easier(AV12 with 4+ cover is more durable then straight AV13)

also, the dred won't be losing AV effectivness to a Brightlance.




it does really depend on the rest of your list. what else do you have in your Elite slots? HS? FA? what is the focus of the army, Shooty or fighty?

Help us help you

Ah yes I will explain my devs. I bought the sprues on ebay and ML was missing a piece on the front. I put the heavy bolter in because: they have a better range than multi melta; don't hurt my men like plasma cannons do; I used all the lascannons.

What I want to do is switch put the HB in my tactical squad and give the devs a completed missile launcher. Good idea or not?

Heavy bolter marines are generally bad. Really bad. If you REALLY want anti infantry fire power. Take an autocannon heavy bolter predator. Then take another, and maybe another. 8 anti infantry/MC shots per 85 point AV 13 hull is really strong for its points.

I guess what I'm saying is: If you want heavy bolters, there are cheaper, better, and in the case of speeders, faster options to take than a tac or devastator squad. Heck even a 5 man scout squad with HB W/hellfire shells is better.

You need a 6 to hit a dread in CC. Thats way better than a Pred

You need 6's to hit with grenades. Everything else hits dreads on 4's atleast.

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

Rurouni Benshin wrote:
Best thing to throw at a Blood Angels Death Company = Ironclad Dreadnought (My Ironclad holds an 8/1 record against Death Company thus far)

Though you are helping to prove my point I can't help but notice that your friends don't know how to use their DC...

Haha, they're learning... Some of them have tried different tactics, and others are still hoping for that lucky hit from a TH or PF. Granted this was early on when the new BA codex was still relatively new. But whenever I see DC out there on foot without a transport, I always look forward to what they're going up against...

Another thing to note is that the dread can move 6 inches and shoot both weapons

I am strongly considering buying a dreadnought now after what you've told me about firing its weapons and moving. The reason I will not buy 2 landspeeders is because of money. Its costs a lot! I think the dreadnought will help me a lot because I can change the weapons, put a spare arm on my AoBR dreadnought [with blue tack. I heard the holes are a different size].

The land speeder tornado with a MM and assault cannon looks quite nice. Blow up tanks and slaughter infantry. What do you think? My idea would be to move flat out into cover on the first turn, then shoot whatever I can see on the next and have some termies opposite for backup.

urrrg...

Assault cannon AND MM. 2 expensive weapon upgrades on an AV10 chassis.

my advice is 1 purchased weapon and stop right there.

you really want to specilize the LS. anti-infantry OR anti-tank.


the only speeder that does both efficiently is the Typhoon.

Grey Templar wrote:urrrg...

Assault cannon AND MM. 2 expensive weapon upgrades on an AV10 chassis.

my advice is 1 purchased weapon and stop right there.

you really want to specilize the LS. anti-infantry OR anti-tank.


the only speeder that does both efficiently is the Typhoon.

Very good point. I want an anti tank speeder but all 2 MMs are expensive. Can you tell me what weapons come with the land speeder? I'm a noob needing help here

should probably start another thred for that.... some dakkaites live to press the alert mod button.

I'm not a space marine player, but I've never really seen much point in preds, given that they basically copy the role of devestators, but are worse. Likewise for dakka dreads.

That said, I love the idea of assault ironclads. Invincible to grenades and lower point close combat stuff and they give you lots of S10 attacks that instakill, ignore armor and throw down on vehicles really hard. Yeah, you've got to be more creative with how you get them to their target, but they fill a role that is unique to them (except for perhaps thunder hammer or chain fist + storm shield termies), unlike preds and dakka dreads.

BlackWaves wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:urrrg...

Assault cannon AND MM. 2 expensive weapon upgrades on an AV10 chassis.

my advice is 1 purchased weapon and stop right there.

you really want to specilize the LS. anti-infantry OR anti-tank.


the only speeder that does both efficiently is the Typhoon.

Very good point. I want an anti tank speeder but all 2 MMs are expensive. Can you tell me what weapons come with the land speeder? I'm a noob needing help here

look in your Codex.

best outfit(IMO) is a typhoon with HB.

AV10 needs to stay at range and keep moving to stay alive. the Typhoon does both without sacrificing its firepower.

you can move 12" a turn and fire 2 Krak missiles at enemy armor OR you can move 12" a turn and fire 2 Frag missile blasts and the HB at the enemy(this is because Frag missiles are Defensive weapons)


if you set a squadron of 2-3 Typhoons down against an ork army the ork player will absolutly HATE you. 4-6 Frag blasts along with 6-9 HB shots will decimate any infantry and you can switch to Kraks to take down vehicles.

Dreads rule!