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Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum and to wargaming. There's a incoming 500 pt. tourney in our area, which is designed specifically to cater to newbies like me (500 points, armies can be unpainted). Needless to say, I want to join it and I'm gonna need all the advice I can get to have a competitive army list.

So the first army list that popped into mind is this:

HQ
1 Captain/Librarian (still undecided in this area) - 100

Troops
Tac squad - 9 marines (flamer, missile launcher), Sergeant has Chainsword and boltgun, Rhino - 205
Scout Squad - 4 scouts (sniper rifles, missile launcher) - 85

Elites
Vanilla Dreadnought (twin-linked heavy bolter) - 110

I figured there will be very few heavy-armored enemies in a 500 pt. game so I didn't pack meltas and such. The plan is to bombard the enemy while holding position. Dreadnought helps in assault and attract enemy fire, Rhino provides cover and also transports Tac squad to claim objectives.

Questions:
1) What HQ will benefit me the most? I figured a librarian will be helpful and versatile, but a captain is much more sturdier in combat.
2) If it looks like I'm going to fight against other SM armies, should I go with this list? If not, can you provide me with tips on what to pack?
3) Any tips on dealing with shooty armies like Tau and IG? Or just general tips in.... general (redundant sentence is redundant).
4) What enemies should i expect in 500 point games?

Thanks in advance, everyone!

Librarian definetly, Versatility is our greatest asset as Vanilla Marines and you can never have too much.

You do know you can't take two special weapons unless you have 10 marines correct? Or are you not adding the sergeant?

A scout squad comes standard with 5 scouts (Well 4+sergeant)

I find sniper rifles to be totally useless from personal experience due to usually high LD values.

Looking at your list you'll have trouble with horde armies, they'll just run over you due to your lack of firepower, in low point games they have a serious advantage over us and I'm sure you'll be seeing at least a few of these there.

I would drop the Rhino and scouts for a Five Man Tac Squad with a Powerfist Sergeant, but if your dead set on the Rhino which I can understand I would instead drop the Scouts and the TL Heavy Bolter for Multi Melta on the Dread for a five man tac squad basic 90 points.

The Dreadnought having a multi melta is a better idea in general anyway as it will have the power to bust up the enemy dedicated transports/heavily armored infantry (i.e. Independent Characters and other Multi-Wound models.) and if as you said there will be a lot of SM there then you will need the Transport Busting power.

If you are taking them naked (without any extra wargear) I'd go the librarian.

Taking Gate/Avenger will give you some extra mobility, and a nice template, plus he has a force weapon in CC (If you didn't use a psychic power that turn).

I'd drop the dreadnaught at this points level, I'm not a fan of Vanilla dreads, maybe put more bodies in the scout squad, or take another one with the same gear

If you have the points maybe switch the rhino to a razorback, fill the tactical squad and combat squad with the flamer+sarge in the razorback and the ML haning back.

First off, welcome to the world of 40K! You won't regret it!

1. In this list structure, you honestly can't go wrong with either a Captain or Librarian. It really just boils down to how you want to use them. A Librarian will bring a lot of different elements to your list, while the Captain can be made into a strong beat stick. Cater to what you think the army needs, and in this case, you can't go wrong with either. However, given how small the game is, you would probably benefit more from a Librarian because A) he comes with a Power weapon already and B) with the right Psychic Powers, he can contend against any army.

In your case, I would take Avenger, and either Quickening or Might of the Ancients. Without an Epistolary, you won't be able to use both on the same turn, but the idea here is to make him proficient at both Shooting and CC. The Avenger will do great against all armies. Against Horde-like lists (ie - Orks, Tyranids), they pack a great punch, and against MEQ's, they'll eat through Marines with it's AP 3 stat. With Quickening and Might of the Ancients, you can use these powers on either of your turns. This will either guarantee your Librarian to go first in melee, or be wounding on 2+ against infantry. With a Power Weapon, he'll be putting people down very well. Only downside to the Librarian is that he doesn't have his own Invul Save, so keep him in a unit at all times. At the moment, you have nowhere to attach him, but what you could do is Combat Squad your Tact Squad, and leave the Missile Launcher in the back. The other 5 guys and the Librarian, and put them in the Rhino to move around. This way, you potentially can shoot your ML every turn, and your guys in the Rhino can use their weapons through the open hatch.

2. Against MEQ's, the list isn't bad at all. I would suggest giving your Sgt at least a Power Weapon though. MEQ armor saves are good (as you well know), and denying them their saves would be a key to winning. And if you do give him the Power Weapon, switch to a Bolt Pistol. If you need the points, take away the Missile Launcher from the Scouts, and take back the Multi-Melta on the Dreadnought. That'll free up 15 point for you.

2A. Why take those weapons off the Scout and Dreadnought? First off, if you're going Sniper Scouts, take all Snipers in the same unit. Sniper Rifles have the wonderful ability to ignore Toughness and Rend, and the more shots from them, the better. Infiltrate them if you can into cover, and pick off whatever units you see with higher Toughnesses that normal weapons would rely on Strength to wound. Secondly, you have a lot of Anti-Infantry between your Tact Squad and Librarian. Having one Multi-melta shot probably won't shift the game heavily in your favor, but having that almost guaranteed kill shot will help more. Plus, it gives you more versatility when dealing with AV's.

3. When playing against Shooty Armies, switch to a CC game. Tau and IG are not renowned for their CC abilities. Get in their face as quick as you can. And obviously if you're playing against a CC intensive army, you switch to the Shooty Army strategy, and wait for them to come to you while you gun them down.

4. Orks would probably be a likely army to see. But honestly, any army is fair game in any tournament. I mention Orks specifically because their unit to model cost ratio are generally cheap, but in all honesty, don't be surprised to see any army come your way.

Taking a look at your list, it's not a bad start. With some fine tuning, it'll definitely be able to compete. Good luck!

Didn't include the sarge on the tac squad, so they're technically a 10-man squad.

How about Gate of Infinity and Avenger for the librarian? Although I can't use them in combo since no epistolary for me. Might take Might of the Ancients.

From the information I've gathered these past few weeks, around 60-70% in our gaming club has MEQs of different shapes and sizes. Tau and IG around 1-3 players combined, one Tyranid player and two Orks (I mean humans that play Orks, although it would be cool if they're really orks). It's true that hordes will kill me, but chances are in favor of fighting MEQs (and wishing a bit on my dice to really roll well with that flamer).

How about I switch the scouts into CC scouts to assault shooty armies? Drop the missile launcher for the scouts and bolter in the dreadnought so I have 15 points left (will camo cloaks help CC scouts? Or how about removing the Dreadnought close combat weapon for an Missile Launcher or the Rhino a Stormbolter and give the Sarge meltabombs).

HQ
1 Librarian (Might of the Ancients, Avenger) - 100

Troops
Tac squad - 10 marines (flamer, missile launcher), Sergeant has Chainsword and boltgun and meltabombs, Rhino with storm bolter - 220
Scout Squad - 5 scouts (shotguns, combat blades) - 85

Elites
Vanilla Dreadnought - 105

-OR-

Drop the Scout Squad and the bolter for the dreadnought to add another Combat squad.


HQ
1 Librarian (Might of the Ancients, Avenger) - 100

Troops
Tac squad - 10 marines (flamer, missile launcher), Sergeant has Chainsword and boltgun, Rhino with storm bolter - 205
Tac squad - 5 marines (shotguns, combat blades), sergeant has Chainsword and boltgun - 90

Elites
Vanilla Dreadnought - 105

Another idea that popped to me is add a surprise powerfist to the Scout Sarge with CC scouts. The scout squad can be used to take down enemy vehicles, and if lacking enemy vehicles, assault shooty units or sit on objectives.

stars. take null zone on your librarian. it's by far his best power. I can't really explain why it's so good if you're just starting out. Just please trust me. Take it and cast it every chance you get. The other power should probably be a shooting attack. Avenger is fine.

I think you should drop the scout squad. For a small increase in points cost they could have been marines. Scout abilities tend to be a red herring; if you use their infiltrate move they'll tend to deploy too far away from your main force and get wiped out before you can respond.

My advice to you going into the tournament would be to keep your guys as close together as possible so they can support each other. This is a big newbie mistake, they think they have to spread their units all over the frikkin board for no reason. Stick.... Together....
AF

Instead of the Dreadnought, I'd rather field two Attack Bikes with Multi-meltas for 100 Pts in general and swap the heavy weapons on the sidecars to Heavy Bolters for 80 Pts instead when fighting against mob armies.

Attack Bike Squads are great all rounders, they...
-have 2 Attacks, 2 Wounds and Toughness 5 (except against S8+ weapons)
-carry a heavy weapon especially for either mobs or tanks and a Twin-linked Bolter
-can fire both of the above weapons every turn and then still charge into combat regardless of whether they moved (excluding when they move over 12")
-can move up to 24" per turn (and when they do they gain a 3+ Cover Save)
-have Frag Grenades so they're not penalised for charging into cover (unlike Terminators)
-have Krak Grenades for AV10 vehicles (including those with that value as rear armour)
-have a minimum unit size of one model (40-50 Pts), so they cheaper to field than Terminators (who need 5 minimum = 200 Pts)

In my 500 Pts version of my army for quick games I always field 2 with Heavy Bolters, just because it's rare to see heavy armour at 500 Pts in MEQ armies like I commonly fight. In all of my armies from 750 Pts + I always have a minimum of 3 Attack Bikes, split between the 2 heavy weapon options.

Another great thing to take against mob armies are Whirlwinds, they cost only slightly more points-wise than the 2 Attack Bikes with Heavy Bolters, have 48" range and a large blast template, which makes them perfect for swarming Ork and Tyranid armies especially.

All of these are cheap and easy to find models if you use the power of ebay.

Hope that was helpful.

Cheers
Rowan/LSWSjr

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

Unfortunately, I don't have access to warbikes ATM since I'm buying a librarian and I'm painting commissioned Tyranid army to supply my 40k funds (hopefully i'll finish that by the end of September), so the money won't come in time for the tournament.

What should I expect in 500 point tournaments? I heard the gameplay is quite different than the normal 40k games. I've just been playing with borrowed armies so I haven't played anything less than 1000 points, and I've never read battle reports with less than 1000.

At 500pts gameplay is limited, simply because with so few points to work with pretty much everyone's lists are going to consist of the required 1 HQ + 2 Troops and not much else. This means that armies which have strong troops choices like Marines (basically all the 5th edition codicies) have an immediate advantage over armies with generally weak troop choices (Eldar, Tau, older codicies). Admittedly this isn't usually a major issue as 80% of people will be playing Marines (of some description) anyway. Smaller point limits also tend to exaggerate the effect of lucky rolling, you aren't usually going to have any redundancy in your list (backup anti tank unit etc) so if someone gets lucky and takes out a vehicle with a good roll or fails a basic morale check then the game is going to swing rapidly in favour of one player. For all these reasons 500pts isn't really considered a competitive points level, people tend to try and get to 1000pts as soon as they can, (its about the minimum sized game I would want to play) and 1500-2000 is the general bracket for competitive/tournament play.

I would probably consider taking a Razorback rather than a Rhino, gives you another long ranged heavy weapon (go Las/Plas if you have the points) without overtly hurting your mobility as you can combat squad and put the special weapon + Sarge (possibly with a power weapon/fist) and probably the Libby in the Razorback and park the missile launcher at the back in cover. The Dread is probably a decent option at this points level, it gives you some more mobile firepower and a decent assault option as well. I would probably stick with the multi melta though in case someone brings a heavy vehicle along.

So new list:

HQ
1 Librarian (Gate of Infinity, Avenger) - 100

Troops
Tac squad - 10 marines (plasma gun, missile launcher), Sergeant has Chainsword and boltgun, Razorback - 220
Scout Squad - 5 scouts (sniper rifles) - 75

Elites
Vanilla Dreadnought - 105

Much more against MEQs. Thoughts?

I will reconsider the Scouts once i testplayed with the list with scouts. If they fall short of what I was hoping for, I'll use a combat squad.

If you're worried about MEQs you should probably get a Plasma cannon in there as opposed to a plasma gun...of course that would be losing the missile launcher unfortunately...

...or get both Plasma cannon AND gun? That would mean losing either the Razorback for a Rhino. I'm still expecting the missile launcher to pop a few transports.