Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am a casual player. I am forced to reference the rule book and my codex several times each game. I often make mistakes and play rules incorrectly. I want to improve this aspect of my game so I can start to play some pick up games at my FLGS and avoid frustrating the regulars . I have a game coming up this weekend and thought I recalled something /special/ about the way combat squads and deep strike work together. So far, I can only find rules referencing how combat squads works with vehicles and vehicle disembarking. To satisfy my desire to get the rules strait, I request confirmation from the community...

Assume:
I am running a blood angels army.
I have a 10 man assault squad with jump packs.
I declare they are utilizing combat squads, breaking them into two combat squads.

Please confirm the following:
1. Each combat squad is treated as a separate unit for the remainder of the game.
2. Each combat squad must roll it's own reserve roll.
3. Each combat squad must deep strike with its own scatter.

Thank you for any help you all can offer. If you can reference a book and page number, that would be most helpful. Thanks again.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes



Automatically Appended Next Post:
If an assault squad is combat squadded the squad acts as two independent units the entire game.

If both are kept in reserve then when one squad comes down by deep strike it rolls for scatter as a normal unit.

So does the other.

This is how I understand it as well. :-)

Difficult;t to answer the rules say you declare combat squads when they "deploy", so you could have it as a single unit that deep strikes as one and once the deep strike is deployed and scatter resolved announce the combat squads.

I thought that only referred to drop pods. I know that with drop pods, once they land, you can combat squad a tac squad then.

One further question:

Can you combat squad, say a Terminator squad, during deployment to have one CS in a DP and one entering via deep strike? Or is the squad required to combat squad only after the pod arrives?

Gavin Thorne wrote:One further question:

Can you combat squad, say a Terminator squad, during deployment to have one CS in a DP and one entering via deep strike? Or is the squad required to combat squad only after the pod arrives?

No terminators have the option for both Deepstrike and Drop pod.

Only Space wolf Wolf guard terminators can take a drop pod, and they are not allowed to deepstrike without one.

OP:

1) correct; they are separate units and each count as a kill point
2) Incorrect; you do not Combat squad until the unit is deployed, Reserve placement(while part of deployment) is not when the unit is deployed. Scratch all that; after re-reading the Reserves rules and the combat squad rules Deploying happens in deployment and entering reserves is "deploying" those units into reserves. This makes you correct(as said in the combat squad rule "the one exception to this is drop pods)
3)Absolutely correct.

Thank you for your replies. Watch for a battle report Sunday night.

1.Yes
2.No
3.Yes

Combat squading is determined at deployment. A unit is not deployed until it is on the table. This comes from:

p94 BRB, “When deploying their army, players may choose to NOT deploy one or more units in thier army and INSTEAD leave them in reserves.” Just because it happens during deployment does not cause the unit to be 'deployed'.

and

p95 “Roll for arrival of these units [deep strikers] as specified in the rules for reserves and then DEPLOY them as follows.” Key word 'deploy' activating the combat squad ablility.


You cannot combat squad a unit into reserves as the unit does not deploy into reserves, thus 2 is incorrect. Also both combat squads must be deployed at the same time (as per C:SM) further disallowing separate reserve rolls.

2 Is incorrect, but 3 IS correct.

The rule clearly states that the combat Squads can be deployed in different places.

Arent Tactical Squads in a BA's army only able to Deepstrike through a vehicle? Wouldn't this just eliminate the problem? or do they need two transports?

And if they don't need two transports, then wont they just disembark together and then split up?

Tell me if this is wrong as i'd love to know (I've never thought about this until now)

mastershou wrote: 1. Each combat squad is treated as a separate unit for the remainder of the game.

Yes. Codex Space Marines page 51, once the decision to split into combat squads is made, each squad is treated as a separate unit from that point.

mastershou wrote:2. Each combat squad must roll it's own reserve roll.

No. BRB page 94, At the start of the player's movement phase he rolls for all units in reserve. After all have been rolled for, he picks any arriving unit and deploys it. The decision to split into combat squads is made when the 10 man unit is deployed. Until that point, it is one unit and therefore must roll to arrive from reserves as one unit.

mastershou wrote:3. Each combat squad must deep strike with its own scatter.

Yes. BRB pages 94 & 95 and Codex Space Marines page 51. You roll for the unit to arrive as per page 94. Once all units have been rolled for, you pick one and deploy it. It is a this point that you decide if you want to combat squad the unit. If you do, then the combat squads are separate units from that point. They are now deployed on the table one at a time and in any order because they are now individual units. If they have the deep strike rule, they deep strike separately and take separate scatter rolls. If they can outflank, they roll for table edge arrival separately. If they have neither of these rules they simply move onto the table from the player's table edge normally, but again as two individual units.

Hey so if each unit gets a DS roll? Do they have to be rolled Specifically for each individual squad? or can you fast roll and pick what you want based on how many pass?

I'm not sure I understand the question. The combat squads are separate units so you would deploy and roll for scatter (if deep striking) like any other unit.

arkayne819 wrote:Hey so if each unit gets a DS roll? Do they have to be rolled Specifically for each individual squad? or can you fast roll and pick what you want based on how many pass?

time wizard wrote:I'm not sure I understand the question. The combat squads are separate units so you would deploy and roll for scatter (if deep striking) like any other unit.

Sorry Im kinda just popping off topic here. I meant for all units. Not Combat Squads. The units in your army in reserve.

Well, right from page 94, once all of your reserves have been rolled for you pick one unit and deploy it. Then you pick another unit and deploy it, and so on.
So no matter how a reserve unit arrives, they are brought on the table, or in the case of deep strike or outflank rolled for and then deployed, one at a time.

The proper manner is to roll for the unit as one for reserves, as the unit is not deployed until arrive from reserves, at which point both combat squads deepstrike and scatter independently of each other entirely.

arkayne819 wrote:Hey so if each unit gets a DS roll? Do they have to be rolled Specifically for each individual squad? or can you fast roll and pick what you want based on how many pass?

Generally, you roll separately for each unit. (Combat Squads being the exception, as they're split on deployment, so you roll for the original unit and then split them as you go to deploy them... but the original unit is still rolled for specifically like every other unit.)

and for clarification:

can the 2 (combats) squads deploy 1 x deepstrike, 1 x table edge (or in vehicle)?

time wizard wrote:Well, right from page 94, once all of your reserves have been rolled for you pick one unit and deploy it. Then you pick another unit and deploy it, and so on.
So no matter how a reserve unit arrives, they are brought on the table, or in the case of deep strike or outflank rolled for and then deployed, one at a time.

Not quite, you roll for each unit in reserve separately. Then you deploy all those that passed.

"Once all of the units in reserve have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it" "then he picks another unit" P94

sui wrote:and for clarification:

can the 2 (combats) squads deploy 1 x deepstrike, 1 x table edge (or in vehicle)?

No because when you put a unit in reserve, you have to declare if it is going to arrive via deep strike or table edge when they are placed in reserve.
Units can only be split into combat squads when they are deployed.
Once you split them, they are 2 separate units and can be deployed in 2 separate locations, but you could not deep strike one and bring the other in at the table edge.
As far as the vehicle, if you place the unit in the transport, it and the embarked unit are rolled for together and arrive together, so again you could not split them into combat squads leaving one in the transport and having wone walk one from the table edge. Not coming in from reserve.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Scott-S6 wrote:

time wizard wrote:Well, right from page 94, once all of your reserves have been rolled for you pick one unit and deploy it. Then you pick another unit and deploy it, and so on.
So no matter how a reserve unit arrives, they are brought on the table, or in the case of deep strike or outflank rolled for and then deployed, one at a time.

Not quite, you roll for each unit in reserve separately. Then you deploy all those that passed.

"Once all of the units in reserve have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it" "then he picks another unit" P94

I'm confused by your comment. Isn't that what the part I highlighted in red from my quote said? "Once all of your reserves have been rolled for....etc".

Welcome to August.