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Over the past few years my son has expressed interest in becoming involved in 40k,now that he's a bit older,and more focused,I'm thinking about getting him an army of his own.

Now,he wants a Space Marine army,and I feel that's a good start,as SM are relatively easy to learn the game with,however,my real question is what to purchase for him?

I already have an SM tactical squad,and plan to pick up the SM codex (of course),but after that I'm a bit stumped.

I was considering a SM battle force,but also thought perhaps purchasing the AoBR box might be the best way to start him off ( I can always trade off the extra Orks for more SM for him).

So I ask you,my fellow Dakkites,what would you suggest for a fledgling SM army?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

Get the battle force. Saves about £30 (or equivalent) now with the price hike, so that's probably about $50 or something for you guys on the other side of the pond.

Now, as an avid marine player for close on five years, I must say the battleforce is epic yes. As for HQ, a captain is good for fun.. but I'd have to say that once your son gets more into tactics and wants to have more of a tourny army then the model will be shelved.
The only good point of a captain is to do a build like this:

Captain: 185pts
-Relic blade (str 6 power weapon)
-Jump pack (obvious)
-Storm shield (3++)
-Artificer armour (2+)

And then take a command squad like this:

1x Apothecary
4x Plasma guns

The captain adds his decent close combat power to another unit - in this case, an assault squad (10 man is best, but battleforce's first five is a good start) and the plasma command squad just dominates when rapid firing. To make the squad a bit better in CC, just throw in a lightning claw or two and perhaps a power fist.

As for the captain, an auxiliary grenade launcher is also good for the aforementioned build (which I will take when I get round to converting the model - with AGL) as it lets you shoot with a decent weapon before charging, and is good for crowd control. Swapping out the JP for a bike is never a bad thing, as it adds +1 Toughness, and in that case forget the AGL and give him hellfire rounds (2+ to wound with boltguns).


That's the basics.. but if you went a different route (i.e. instead of the battleforce) I'd recommend this:

buy
-Scout squad with camo cloaks, 4x Sniper rifles and 1 ML.
-Aforementioned Captain
-Aforementioned command squad in a razorback
-Rhino for tactical squad (or a Razorback, but that can be a bit of a gamble..)
-anti-armour.


Although, before any of this, just buy the codex alone and go through it with him, and see what chapter appeals to him, and if he likes any special characters. AVOID TIGGY.


Ed - anymore questions, shoot me a PM.

The only units that I know he is very interested in acquiring are Terminators,but I suspect that it's due to the fact that he likes the looks of the miniatures,which I understand,and assault squads,because the idea of fast hitting "flying" soldiers appeals to him.

As he honestly doesn't have a "play style" yet,I'm sort of working off of an " want's to assault" frame of mind,and wondering what would best suit that style.

Also,thanks Dark,I'm leaning towards the Battle Force quite a bit,and will look into your other suggestions.

A battle force is a good start and after that I'd suggest some scouts.
A predator or another armoured Vehicle would also be a good chioce.
Or if assaulting is something he likes then a Dreadnought perhaps.

A Bike squad I find always have a use but that might just be down to my meta and *unique* playstyle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd leave out the command squad until later as it's not an effective unit and can be hard to get it's points back if used badly. It can be equiped with a dizzying array of weapons however.

Sounds to me like Blood Angels may work quite well then; flying, assaulting, Space Marine, forgiving (5th ed Codex) and easy to paint? And what young person doesn't like vampires?

A Battle Force sounds good also, you may want to be sure he likes the tactical squad first I guess, but yeah, I think a battle-force is a good way to go. Although AOBR has a dreadnought (COOL!) and his desired termies...

Nice little 'topic' here Fitzz, good luck!

Yes,I believe a Dreadnought will be one of the purchases I eventually make for him.

I have a very rough concept going which would look something like this.

2 tactical squads in rhinos
1 assault squad ( incorporating Darks idea of a captain with jump pack)
1 Dreadnought
1 command squad
a terminator assault squad with a terminator Chaplin in a land raider.

As for heavy support,I'm unsure and of course the above list is embryonic at best.

@ Just Dave

I was actually thinking that Blood Angels may be the way to go for him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, It seems that motorcycles are also a primary interest when it comes to units he'd enjoy having included in his army.

White Scars perhaps?

Fast and assault oriented seem to be the primary factors here.

Well, how about this:

Steps --
1) Help him assemble his Tactical squad.
2) Buy the codex and go through it for awhile with him, getting him to understand the fluff a bit and the army list. The special characters should interest him most, but if you tell him that his commander is meant to represent him, he'll want to make his own commander. (maybe )
3) Play a squad level game with him - a small kitchen table or something should be good - just use five Death Guard (I assume you have some from your sig) vs his previously assembled tactical marines. Start off with a single marine, and get him to understand moving, shooting (an ork or two could be useful for this ) and assaulting (got a gretchin lying around anywhere?). Then show him heavy and assault weapons (ML and flamer - you'll probably assemble the tac squad with those..), and after, perhaps the sergeant getting extra attacks (fit a spare power weapon on or something) and cut down an ork or CSM. Then do a squad on squad game, but maybe give him a bit of advantage? Perhaps do 20 ork boyz attacking his tac marines who are in cover. When doing these games, describe the dice as entire rounds of ammo, and just do whatever you can to make him feel like it's a real battle. Immerse him in it, and help him imagine his little toy soldiers come to life!
4) Help him paint his first few marines in his chosen scheme (if he hasn't already decided, then help him! Or just go with smurfs.. but he might like Raven Guard.. (shrike!!!)).
5) THEN buy more stuff, and take him down for some beginner sessions at GW.. but try to find a decent one with good staff.. most of them suck.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Well, how about this:

Steps --
1) Help him assemble his Tactical squad.
2) Buy the codex and go through it for awhile with him, getting him to understand the fluff a bit and the army list. The special characters should interest him most, but if you tell him that his commander is meant to represent him, he'll want to make his own commander. (maybe )
3) Play a squad level game with him - a small kitchen table or something should be good - just use five Death Guard (I assume you have some from your sig) vs his previously assembled tactical marines. Start off with a single marine, and get him to understand moving, shooting (an ork or two could be useful for this ) and assaulting (got a gretchin lying around anywhere?). Then show him heavy and assault weapons (ML and flamer - you'll probably assemble the tac squad with those..), and after, perhaps the sergeant getting extra attacks (fit a spare power weapon on or something) and cut down an ork or CSM. Then do a squad on squad game, but maybe give him a bit of advantage? Perhaps do 20 ork boyz attacking his tac marines who are in cover. When doing these games, describe the dice as entire rounds of ammo, and just do whatever you can to make him feel like it's a real battle. Immerse him in it, and help him imagine his little toy soldiers come to life!
4) Help him paint his first few marines in his chosen scheme (if he hasn't already decided, then help him! Or just go with smurfs.. but he might like Raven Guard.. (shrike!!!)).
5) THEN buy more stuff, and take him down for some beginner sessions at GW.. but try to find a decent one with good staff.. most of them suck.

Great minds and all that again Dark.

1. He assembled his first squad of tactical marines,with minimal help from me (they were the Battle for Macragge push/fit Marines).
2. I'll be buying him his codex this week,and going over it/explaining various elements with him,he already has a fairly good understanding of SM fluff,and I believe that the idea that the commander is him will really appeal to him.
3. Definitely have playing a few small "skirmish games" on the agenda,to allow him to get a "feel" for the game.
4. We have spent a few hours today looking over chapters/color schemes,nothing decided yet,but The White Panthers seem to be a favorite...followed by Celestial Lions and Storm Lords.
5. No GW in the immediate area,closest one is an hour or so away,however,the staff at the local FLGS already know him from my patronage,and they offer beginner games IIRC.

Appreciate your help here Dark.

If he's wanting a fast-attack based assault SM army, go with either Raven Guard (Shrike is an awesome model IMO) or Blood Angels.

Shrike = everyone fleets + two master crafted, rending lightning claws. Two re-rolls to hit.

I started building my army by buying models I thought looked awesome and taking it from there.
I say take that approach with your son.

When your son is starting out I'd recommend staying away from "named" characters alltogether (i.e., Calgar, Tigerius, Vulkan, Khan, ect.), as the subject of "now the rules says this but this special man makes you get this rule" complicates things tremendously. As for heavy support, predators are always good. Decent options, and light(er) on the points.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Shrike = everyone fleets + two master crafted, rending lightning claws. Two re-rolls to hit.

No, it isn't. You only use 1 LC, so it's only 1 Reroll.

Gwar! wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Shrike = everyone fleets + two master crafted, rending lightning claws. Two re-rolls to hit.

No, it isn't. You only use 1 LC, so it's only 1 Reroll.

Not true. If you were only using one lightning claw then you wouldn't get an extra attack for two LCs either. A "pair of lightning claws" as The Raven's Talons are described means that he is equipped with two LCs that are both master crafted, and used together, giving +1 attack and two re-rolls for having two weapons (being used together) that allow a single re-roll each.

At least that's how I interpret it all. There is no definition on this AFAIK.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Shrike = everyone fleets + two master crafted, rending lightning claws. Two re-rolls to hit.

No, it isn't. You only use 1 LC, so it's only 1 Reroll.

Not true. If you were only using one lightning claw then you wouldn't get an extra attack for two LCs either. A "pair of lightning claws" as The Raven's Talons are described means that he is equipped with two LCs that are both master crafted, and used together, giving +1 attack and two re-rolls for having two weapons (being used together) that allow a single re-roll each.

At least that's how I interpret it all. There is no definition on this AFAIK.

Wrong. You only ever use one CCW in an assault. The only benefit having a second LC does is add an extra attack. By your logic, Two LC always re-roll 2 rolls to wound.

Gwar! wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Shrike = everyone fleets + two master crafted, rending lightning claws. Two re-rolls to hit.

No, it isn't. You only use 1 LC, so it's only 1 Reroll.

Not true. If you were only using one lightning claw then you wouldn't get an extra attack for two LCs either. A "pair of lightning claws" as The Raven's Talons are described means that he is equipped with two LCs that are both master crafted, and used together, giving +1 attack and two re-rolls for having two weapons (being used together) that allow a single re-roll each.

At least that's how I interpret it all. There is no definition on this AFAIK.

Wrong. You only ever use one CCW in an assault. The only benefit having a second LC does is add an extra attack. By your logic, Two LC always re-roll 2 rolls to wound.

The big red book wrote: "Two of the same special weapon: These models gain one additional attack. All of their attacks, including the bonus attack, use the special weapon's bonuses and penalties."

You may be right about that. The way GW words things is sometimes unrealistic though/this case.

Although, by my logic, two LCs wouldn't always re-roll 2 rolls to wound. You would be able to re-roll (by my logic) all failed rolls to wound, and then re-roll any failed original re-rolls via the second lightning claw - which is then overrided by the rule that states you can only re-roll a dice once.

Then again, the way it's worded in the codex, you could take "a mastercrafted pair of lightning claws" to be describing a single weapon (the ravens talons), although common sense disagrees. If you ignored common sense and got into the technicalities of wording and meaning depending on the situation, I believe it is possible I could be correct.

Anyway, case closed - I've never seen anyone beat Gwar! in a rules dispute and I'm not about to try. Personally, I would play with Shrike as he gets two re-rolls for his "to hit" rolls, but that's personal preference.

Back on topic now, everyone.

Sounds like you want to pick up an AOBR set, it will give you most of what you plan to purchase for your son.

A Captain
A Tactical Squad
A Dreadnought
A Terminator Squad

Pretty much everything on your list.

Catyrpelius wrote:Sounds like you want to pick up an AOBR set, it will give you most of what you plan to purchase for your son.

A Captain
A Tactical Squad
A Dreadnought
A Terminator Squad

Pretty much everything on your list.

Ebay ahoy! (unless you want to take the Orks from the set for your own army..

This is my input, and it may well fly in the face of everything said so far in this thread.

Don't buy a whole bunch of Space Marines. A few, yes. Maybe a Captain, one more Tactical Squad, five Assault Marines, five Terminators, a Dreadnought, and five Scout Snipers, to start... and stop there. Build a good 750-1000 point army, let him play with it a bit, get him used to the rules with the various unit types I mentioned there (shooting, assault, vehicles, Terminators (Relentless and invuln saves), sniper rifles, camo cloaks, and so on) and see how he likes the game and the army.

Then, if he REALLY likes Space Marines, you can go and buy more.

The worst mistake you can make is to go out and buy 3000 points of Space Marines, then have him decide he likes Tau better.

That's basically what I did. Now I have 3400 points of Space Marines I bought, assembled, painted... and never play.

I have a few Important questions about your child entity.
1) how old is the entity?
2) does the entity like dice?
3) Does the entity still play with legos?
With this information I can help you see if the entity would enjoy wargaming at all in a very cheap way. If the entity is young, I will be of great use a since I still am a timid entity you see at gaming stores thinking how annoying that weird kid will be while he quietly watches your game.

lord of the ghosts wrote:I have a few Important questions about your child entity.
1) how old is the entity?
2) does the entity like dice?
3) Does the entity still play with legos?
With this information I can help you see if the entity would enjoy wargaming at all in a very cheap way. If the entity is young, I will be of great use a since I still am a timid entity you see at gaming stores thinking how annoying that weird kid will be while he quietly watches your game.

Child entity??...how about we just call him a child.

And to answer your questions.

1. The child is 9
2. The child is familiar with dice,understands the process of rolling dice,and counts very well...maybe I'll take him to Vegas some day.
3. The child still plays with his legos

Also,I'm quite certain he will enjoy war gaming.as he has expressed a great deal of interest in starting his own army over a long period of time,and enjoys watching me play.
As a general rule,if my son expresses interest in something for longer than a month,then he will stick with it.

Something you should probably do to make SURE he REALLY DEFINITELY wants to get into this hobby is to let him use one of your armies at say.. 1k? Versus you with your other army. I think he'd prefer your chaos as they are chaos SPACE MARINES.

Just give him your own "GW introductory game".

Besides, I'd love to see you let yourself lose to him without giving it away!

In all seriousness, just play 1k Orks V CSM, pitched battle with Annihilation. Simple, fun, and there should be plenty of dead orks by the end of it (unless you use trucks, in which case he'll have no chance [unless he has first turn and has autocannons everywhere]).

FITZZ wrote:

lord of the ghosts wrote:I have a few Important questions about your child entity.
1) how old is the entity?
2) does the entity like dice?
3) Does the entity still play with legos?
With this information I can help you see if the entity would enjoy wargaming at all in a very cheap way. If the entity is young, I will be of great use a since I still am a timid entity you see at gaming stores thinking how annoying that weird kid will be while he quietly watches your game.

Child entity??...how about we just call him a child.

And to answer your questions.

1. The child is 9
2. The child is familiar with dice,understands the process of rolling dice,and counts very well...maybe I'll take him to Vegas some day.
3. The child still plays with his legos

Also,I'm quite certain he will enjoy war gaming.as he has expressed a great deal of interest in starting his own army over a long period of time,and enjoys watching me play.
As a general rule,if my son expresses interest in something for longer than a month,then he will stick with it.

This kid is perfect for the game I had in mind.
This link is the answer for your question, just give the miniatures stuff that is the closest to want you want to replicate.
http://www.brikwars.com/rules/2005/title.htm
The game is very much like warhammer 40k, I think the creators got the idea from it.
Asince you are most likely to kick ass in 40k, the new rules will level the table top.

^ I almost want to play that. Almost.

Spear of Sicarius.Everything you need for a Drop pod SM army, all for the low low cost of $1,200.

Well, I bought my first army due to what I thought looked good, which was everything.
Don't do this if you want to remain financially secure.

Generally, I learned to play through small games with simple objectives for winning; annihilation missions are a great place to start, as it's basically about killing an opponent. Teach him the rules through these, (I'd reccomend games of 750-1000pts) and use one of your own armies to start with. Then, when he's ready, get him, say, 1000pts of marines. Then play more games.
It worked for me when I were a lad, so it should work for your son.
If not, no refunds.

Definitely do the battle force and build that up and get him playing with that to give him a taste of what they all act like on the table. Then he can see what he likes best to expand on.

I think we're all just repeating ourselves now (except me ).

So how goes the inseption of neophyte mini-fitzz into the brotherhood of the Adeptus Astartes progressing?