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Having purchased the High Elven army book, I put this list together:

Teclis 475

20x Seaguard, Full Command, Shields, Banner of Ellyrion 300

25x Spearmen, Full Command 250

15x Phoenix Guard, Full Command, Banne of Arcane Protection, The Skeinsliver 305

Giant Eagle 50

Giant Eagle 50

15x Sword Masters, Full Command 255

Mage Lv2, Seerstaff of Saphery, Shadow, Enfeebling Foe, Okkam's Mindrazor 165

5x Dragon Princes 150

Having no experience whatsoever with WHFB, I've no idea how good or bad this list is, so I'm asking you, my fellow Dakkites, to help me!

pretty good list for first time. At a quick glance I would change your lvl2 mage. Teclis is going to absorb most of your offensive magic by casting 2-3 spells with IF.
Instead take an annulian crystal for magic defense. Or probably even better take a bsb with Armor of Caledor a Great Weapon and maybe Guardian Phoenix or Dawn Stone.

Finally think really hard if you want teclis. He is a great enhancement to your army. But he is also a crutch and it might be more useful to learn to play the game without him for a few rounds, then use him later after you begin to understand the basic strategies of the game.

Its pretty good!

But having experienced a Teclis IF in the face theres a few things he prefers.

If you drop the Banner of arcane protection and the Skeinsliver you can take the banner of Sorcery.

Drop the lvl 2 mage and take Caradryan and put him in the Phoenix guard.
This would put you i think 10pts over 2000.

So you would have to drop the banner of ellyrion and have 5 pts to fit in the gleamming Pennant banner for them instead. It fits and makes exactly 2000, plus it might come in handy!

You lose the lvl 2 mage and the treat everything as open ground for the seaguard and +1 to starting roll.

But you gain An additional d3 power dice a turn for teclis (most turns you'll hopefully be looking at 11 or 12 powerdice which is the maximum you can get) - This pretty much makes him a monster of magic.

The Phoenix guard get Magic resistance 3 from caradryan instead of 2 from the banner, Giving them a 1+ ward save against magic.
Also Caradryan himself is a beast in combat and has some dire consequences if your opponent kills him in combat.

As Tiekwando has said though, Your level 2 mage isn't really going to be getting off his spells untill Teclis dies, Or completely destroys the enemy army.

Also you can put teclis in the Phoenix guard so he can benefit from MR 3! giving him atleast something as he has no save what so ever!!

The reason I took the level 2 mage is to make it cast enfeebling foe and follow it up with the dwellers below with Teclis. As far as I can see, that'd be absolutely insanely killy. I was thinking of adding Caradyan when I was making the list, but I ran out of points . I can see the point of the banner of sorcery too. Something like this then?

Teclis 475

Caradyan 175

20x Seaguard, Full Command, Shields, Gleaming Pennant Banner 290

25x Spearmen, Full Command 250

15x Phoenix Guard, Full Command, Banner of Sorcery 300

Giant Eagle 50

Giant Eagle 50

15x Sword Masters, Full Command 255

5x Dragon Princes 150


Eagles and Dragon Princes go for enemy artillery, the rest just brace for impact (so to speak) while Teclis does his thing?

I think you were supose to put the banner of sorcery in them Phoenix guard

But yeah then it will look pretty damn good!

As you say, Eagles and Dragon princes can harass warmachines.

Depending on which lore you take with Teclis, He will be your primary offensive at ranged.
Get him to weaken enemy units as they advance then they should be easier to finish off with Swordmasters or Phoenix guard.

The Seaguard can volley fire to help with that. And the spearmen just get in the way and hold flanks.

Aslong as teclis survives a turn or 2 to get off alot of spells he will have already turned the game in your favour

Lore of life is great because raising the toughness on a unit like Phoenix guard makes them almost unkillable. but you can also do it on the Swordmasters so they can Smash into a unit and take minimal casulties in return, which is usually their weakness.
Also Dwellers below!

Lore of shadow is pretty much the opposite. You debuff your enemy so they are easier to kill or do not strike as hard. Also you can get okkams mindrazor off on a spearman unit in combat. And thats alot of High strength attacks.

Then theres also Lore of Metal and Fire to do alot of damage with depends who your facing.

These would be the most recommended lores but you can pick anyone you like!! As teclis can choose his lore before the game starts so you can meta with it when not many if any wizards can.

Seon wrote:I think you were supose to put the banner of sorcery in them Phoenix guard

D'oh! Fix'd...

Still, I kinda liked the idea of enfeebling foe + dwellers, is there just not enough power die to reliably get it off or what?

Its actually a pretty decent starting army. I've played my fair share of games with HE, and I think you might find that the blocks of Phoenix Guard and Swordmasters are too small.

The Dragon Princes were pretty damn good in 7th, but in 8th they will not be very good. You cannot use them to break units like you could in 7th due to Steadfast. You will have to be very careful in using them only to hit flanks/exposed units.

After getting a few games in with the list you have, if you find you need something extra, consider dropping the Dragon Princes altogether and increasing the size of either the Swordmasters or the PG.

Keep in mind that the Swordmasters will drop like flies to any sort of shooting. They have T 3 with an Armour save of 5+. One Stone Thrower hit and that unit of 15 is pretty much gone. Make sure to use your eagles for war machine hunting.

**EDIT** In terms of the PD you will need.... With the moonstaff, and the banner of sorcery, your *average* dice will be 11. Thats more than enough, but you have to make priorities. You will need to have Throne of Vines in play at all times. If its not in play, cast that first. You will likely be regrowthing the PG or the Swordmasters every turn. Earthblood on the Swordmasters would be ideal as you can give them a 5+ (4+ with ToV) regen save. Flesh to Stone would also be nice on the Swordmasters as that would make them damn hard to kill.

Its not so much about the dice as it is about optimizing your killing potential. The Enfeebling Foe / Dwellers below combo is certainly deadly, but you are sacrificing most of your other life spells to get it off. Thats assuming your opponent is unable to dispel EF. If they do, the combo falls short, and you are left with a very killable army.

The reason many suggest Caradryan over the other mage is that Caradryan will usually guarantee that Teclis is able to survive. You have to remember where you are going to put him (usually he is in the unit of PG) and that if any character gets into combat with the PG, they will be challenging you each turn. The PG champion won't last very long, and without Caradryan, Teclis is either pushed to the back, or dead in a challenge. Caradryan however usually destroys anyone in combat. He has some pretty awesome CC stats, but if he does die, he immediately does D6 wounds to the model that killed him with no Armour save allowed. Usually, the big guy that challenged him is also dead, leaving Teclis relatively safe.

As for the lores to use I would suggest life, shadow or death.

Life is good to buff units but you should only be getting 3 spells off (because you want to throw a lot of dice at them to guarantee IF). So you will cast thrones, +4t or d6+1 units and dwellors. Really the only really big one to get off is dwellors, the others aren't as worth it, however healing teclis is a huge bonus.

Shadow- Mindrazor, and Pit and Miasma or either of the -t/s hexs. Three really good spells that can change the game for you, Plus mindrazor makes it so our spears are the best unit in the game Or you can cast only Mind+superpit and get both off at IF much more often.

Death- Purple sun, and fate/sig spell to kill off monsters, mages, and warmachines. Everything that we HE hate. Because teclis is LD 10 you get a nice bonus to killing warmachines (usually +2/+3). Plus with all the extra dice you can cast another kill spell or doom and darkness to make that small victory in CC to a huge gap.

Those would be my top 3 choices going into most games. Life is defensive, Shadow is combat oriented, death is offensive.

I like the list, I've used Teclis to great effect in the past though I would only take the banner of Sorcery if I was using another mage as well. Teclis himself will generate an extra D3 power dice each phase so I personally think it is overkill to also have the banner.

One thing I would suggest is that if you want a cavalry choice to use to harry war machines don't go with Dragon Princes. Even for a unit of 5 they are way to expensive, and you already have the Eagles doing that job. A unit of Silver Helms or Ellyrian Reavers would be much cheaper and do the job just as well and might not be as big a target for enemy shooting. The Reavers would also get a vanguard move at the beginning of the game which is awesome.

Lastly, if you can spare the points for it, take a Bolt Thrower. If the enemy has a big monster or 2 coming your way with a high toughness and lots of attacks the army you have might be hard pressed to be able to do much damage to it. I don't care how steadfast you are getting charged by 2 hydras at once hurts.