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Lord
--------------------
Sorcerer Lord
Level 4
Blood of Tzeentch
255
--------------------

Hero
--------------------
Chaos Sorcerer
Level 2
Spell Familar
120
--------------------

Core
--------------------
16 Warriors
Mark of Nurgle
Halbreds
Sheilds
Full Command
Banner of Wrath
375
--------------------

Special
--------------------
15 Chosen
Mark Of Nugle
Halbreds
Full Command
Dispel Scroll
385
--------------------

Rare
--------------------
2 Warshrines
260
--------------------

I need help writing fantasy lists in general, I've migrated from 40k to Fantasy, I like the feel of the game, and the look of the models better, but I just can't find anything that works for Warriors of Chaos. Another of my main problems is that my room mate plays tournament ready Skaven..... Dreaded 13th spell on a level 3 or 4 greyseer, a plague furnace with escorted by like 20-40 plague monks, two squads of 60 slaves, two squads of 20 clan rats with plague wind mortars. It's hardly ever fun, because it's just a one sided battle. As Warriors of Chaos you'd think slaughtering puny rat men would be easy, IT'S NOT!!!! I don't think I have won a single game of the 10 or so we've played. Anyways thanks for reading and the advice.

Well for starters, your army isnt legal. You have to have at least 25% of your army in core, which is 375pts for a 1500pt army. Your single unit of warriors only comes to 345. Chosen cannot take a dispel scroll because they are arcane items, and only wizards can take arcane items.

Your army seems to be about 70pts under 1500. Its a good idea to post the total points cost for a unit when posting army lists, because it lets people easily see if you have miss counted.

Two sorcerers are unnecessary. You only get 2d6 power dice per magic phase so often you will run out. Id say drop the level 4. WoC can make some horrible combat lords, so I think that would be better.

You need more core. Adding two more warriors will get you up to the minimum. Also give them halberds or an extra hand weapon so that they do more damage. If you have trouble with large numbers of cheap infantry them warriors with two hand weapons is the way to go.

Chosen are good, but mark of nurgle is of limited use on them I think, because most stuff is WS3 and so will be hitting them on 5s anyway. Mark of Khorne would be better.

Warshrines are ok, but they're not as good as hellcannon. They best thing to kill large units of cheap stuff is with a hellcannon. It's a S5 stone thrower and a hard monster in combat. Its the best rare choice chaos have.

Your friends army also looks quite big, so I would suggest asking to see his list and check to see if it's over the points level.

That scaven list may actually be legal, but thats besides the point.

You only have 2 blocks of infantry and then 2 warshrines. Which is a small army regardless of points.

Start by dropping the chosen, lvl 2, and the warshrines to free up points.

Then add another block or two of warriors and a hellcannon (sorry don't have codex on me, so i can't be as specific as I want).

The reason for a lvl 4 is to counter his lvl 3 or 4 greyseer. If you don't have a lvl 4 you will struggle to get spells off and dispel his spells.

I forgot to put in my halberds and shields on the warriors, also his army is completely legal, I just didn't have his list on hand when I wrote it.

Would it be a good idea to instead of giving the Warriors sheilds, give them the add. hand weapon? The reason I take the level 4 Tzeentch wizard is because they have some pretty sick spells, like Pandemonium or Infernal gateway, Treason of Tzeentch on the 60 man slave unit was the highlight of my game.

I hear a lot of people give crap to the warshrines, with the chosen that's 3 automatic eye's of the gods rolls, that's pretty beastly! They had +1 strength, +1 armor, and caused fear. Pretty sick unit until slaves got them in combat for 3 turns because there was 60 of them v.v. .

Oh I left out a detail when writing the original post this morning, I'm also writing for a 1500 pt tournament that won't allow proxies, and a hellcannon is not with in my budget range because I still need to get more core, and special.

Anyway I'll explore the options of the Chaos Lord today, in the past I've had a Khrone Lord on a juggernaught with the glaive of putrefaction and the helm of many eyes. Though that's when I was running him as a hero. I look forward to what all of you have to say.

Hyper Elite WoC @ 1500? Nice! And MoN makes me happy as well But I do have some concerns:

1) Your points seem to be off across the list, like some upgrades aren't included in the total points per unit.
2) The level 4 needs a ward save badly!
3) I too think the level 2 is not worthwhile, not at 1500 particularly. I would much rather go with a BSB, for those rare instances where either of your two blocks doesn't win combat. Also, he is quite fighty
4) While I don't like warshrines very much, I think 2 at 1500 is excessive. Save the buff-fest for 2k+ games when you have another 150 points to sink into a mediocre support unit. I think those points are better spent upgrading your characters and buying more warriors and chosen.

Here's what I was thinking:

L: Sorcerer Lord - level 4, talisman of endurance, blood of tizz = 330

H: Exalted Hero - MoN, BSB, stream of corruption, shield = 180

C: 18 Warriors - MoN, banner of wrath, full command, halberds, shields = 411

S: 18 Chosen - MoN, favor, full command, halberds, shields = 445

R: Warshrine = 130
--------
1496

> 4/5+ save for the level 4 now (What lore are you taking? IF you are building to fight skaven all the time, then I guess good old fire might be the best to fry up some rat. D3 S4 hits per rank ftw?)

> BSB instead of level 2, rocking a 3/6+ save (in combat), hit on 5+ by anything that is WS4 or less, and capable of vomiting into combat for skaven melting fun.

> Moar warriors! Kept the banner of wrath, seems like a nice back up for the level 4, especially if he takes something technical like Shadow.

> Moar chosen! Any chosen buff-spam list needs to have favor in there, and so there it is. Also, shields for shooting protection.

> 1 warshrine, for reasons noted above.

I at least think it's stronger, and it continues your theme at the cost of the second warshrine. The chosen still get to play with the Eye, but there are more of both units to soak casualties and a BSB to keep them in the think of it.

- Salvage

i think you need some extra units (preferably fast things). seems easy to out flank you by tarpitting. I'd say drop the chosen if necessary.

Chaos Lord
MoT
Aethersword (Ignore Armor)
Enchanted Sheild (Adds 2 to armor)
Necrotic Phylactery (Ignores Poisoned Attacks, Lores of Death and Nurgle)
Collar of Khorne (Magic Resistant (2), and a 6+ Ward)
Stream of Corruption (Once per game make a S3 breath attack)

- 330

Chaos Sorcerer
Level 2
MoN
Spell Familar
Dispel Scroll

- 180

Chaos Warriors(15)
MoN
Halberds
Add. Hand Weapons
Sheilds
Command
Banner of Wrath

- 375

Chosen(15)
MoN
Halberds
Add. Hand Weapon
Sheilds
Full Command
Sword of Battle (+1 attack)

- 409

The Lord will be in the chosen unit, the sorc will be in the warrior unit.

With that I am sitting at... 1294 points, I'm looking at a hellcannon which would put me at 1499 points (Though I'd have to make one). I'm also looking at getting a Warshrine, giving the Banner of Rage to the Chosen which gives them Frenzy and fleshing out other units with more upgrades, getting an exalted hero with a battle standard, a halberd, shield, add. hand weapon and stream of corruption. There are other options that I haven't fully put together in my head yet like including trolls, chaos ogres or some other things. Please let me know what you think on the revised in progress list, and what I can do with the remainder of the points.

Chosen with a warshrine are nasty - two is unnecessary. There's plenty of things that can kill units without saves and without needing to do wounds. Lowering your initiative with the shadow signature spell then hitting you with pit of shades, for instance. Chosen are already expensive, don't put TOO many points into the unit.

Hellcannons are good. I've tried it once only but was very impressed. Simply the idea that you have something that can shoot back at the enemy that will CRUSH anything light and fast that heads its way is nice.

I handed the list off to my room mate, and he says my main weakness will be cannons and horde with the army. He's thinking the Hell cannon might be one of the better bets.

A few problems with this list ...

LyelCross wrote:Chaos Lord
MoT
Aethersword (Ignore Armor)
Enchanted Sheild (Adds 2 to armor)
Necrotic Phylactery (Ignores Poisoned Attacks, Lores of Death and Nurgle)
Collar of Khorne (Magic Resistant (2), and a 6+ Ward)
Stream of Corruption (Once per game make a S3 breath attack)

- 330

Chaos Sorcerer
Level 2
MoN
Spell Familar
Dispel Scroll

- 180

Chaos Warriors(15)
MoN
Halberds
Add. Hand Weapons
Sheilds
Command
Banner of Wrath

- 375

Chosen(15)
MoN
Halberds
Add. Hand Weapon
Sheilds
Full Command
Sword of Battle (+1 attack)

- 409

1) Phylactery and collar are both talismans. Stick with the collar.

2) Spell familiar and dispel scroll are both arcane. Tough call but I'd probably go with the spell familiar for a stronger casting phase and the spells you need.

3) I think you're better off saving 30 points and taking either ahw or halberds on your warriors and chosen. In which case halberds ftw, since the second rank benefits as well.

I'm also fairly shocked that you aren't taking favor on somebody so the chosen get to tweak their result - you can toss it on the lord or the sorcerer if you really want the chosen champ to pay 25 points for +1A.

On the hellcannon, yes it's obviously a good choice. Hence why I never suggest it

Personally I'd buy your third unit - warshrine, hellcannon, etc - to make the army legal and then put all your extra points into more warriors or more chosen or both. 15 is pretty tiny for absorbing enemy shooting and magic and still being effective in combat.

(I sorta think the other list was better, as the lord is a lot of overkill while the level 4 can really push stuff through, and the BSB means your handful of dudes stay on the field. But your call.)

- Salvage

I was not aware of the one talisman per person rule... That sucks, but oh well. The idea for the chosen to have a magic weapon is I know a lot of people at my game shop play Vampire Counts and we had a game where the black coach got to be a flying ethereal monstrosity, along with other things ethereal. I'm trying the hellcannon tonight, and might start converting one soon, I'll post the results of the current list with the hellcannon, after I take out the extra stuff that makes it illegal tonight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chaos Lord
MoT
Aethersword (Ignore Armor)
Enchanted Sheild (Adds 2 to armor)
Collar of Khorne (Magic Resistant (2), and a 6+ Ward)
Stream of Corruption (Once per game make a S3 breath attack)

- 320

Chaos Sorcerer
Level 2
MoN
Spell Familar

- 155

Chaos Warriors(15)
MoN
Halberds
Add. Hand Weapons
Sheilds
Command
Banner of Wrath

- 375

Chosen(15)
MoN
Halberds
Add. Hand Weapon
Sheilds
Full Command
Favor of the Gods
Banner of Rage

- 409

Hellcannon

- 205


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well with that list I won. What did him in was he rolled very poorly in the magic phase, and he couldn't tarpit me long enough, two turns. But he dwindled his slaves down by two failed poison wind mortar shots and the dual wielding. Great against horde! 26 attacks + what the Lords 6 or the breath weapon for the chosen unit, and 21 for the normal warriors. Thanks for the suggestions!