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Hey folks,

I posted my first draft a couple weeks ago, and I've since made some changes, and I'd like another round of help. It's 1500 on the money, so hopefully it's good as it stands. I'm hoping the great folks on Dakka will give me some insight on what's good and bad about this list, how I can expect it to perform, what tactics I could use to maximize its effectiveness, and maybe some changes I could make to improve it.

Thanks,

Exile

and here's the list...

Vol'Vash Mekhael, the Archangel
Daemon Prince
Mark of Slaanesh
wings
Warptime

Marcus Uriel, Keeper of Names
Chaos Sorcerer
Mark of Slaanesh
wings
personal icon
meltabombs
Lash of Submission

The Choir
Noise Marines x10
personal icon
sonic blasters x5
Noise Champion
power weapon
doom siren
meltabombs
Rhino

The Cleansed
Chaos Space Marines x10
Icon of Slaanesh
flamer x2
Aspiring Champion
power weapon
meltabombs
Rhino

The Blessed Children
Daemonettes x10

Elias, the Fury Reborn
Chaos Dreadnought
additional Dread CCW
extra armor
heavy flamer

The Ascendant
Chaos Raptors x9
Icon of Slaanesh
flamer x2, or meltagun
Aspiring Champion
lightning claw pair
meltabombs

The Trumpets
Obliterator Cult x3

Looks neat. Only thing nagging on me is the flamer/missile launcher combo in the marine squads

And the problem with that is...

ExiledinElysium wrote:And the problem with that is...

well unlike normal marines you cant combat squad so you have a short range assault weapon with a long range heavy weapon. unless the flame is for anti assaults

Princes are decent.

Rhinos don’t need Extra Armor.
CSMs are so so, the tactical squad look to them (as discussed) is not the CSM strong build (which would be a pair of special weapons).

Lesser Daemons are ok, sadly, don’t forget they are just lesser daemons, so use them appropriately.

Dread is ok, though a bit too much bling for a model who’s few positive qualities is being cheap-ish.

Raptors: decent, generally go for pairs of weapons, but they are great delivering flamers or meltas.

Oblits are ok, if a bit overburdened early game.

K this might be a stupid question, but what do you mean by "a pair of special weapons"? People keep saying this, but I'm not seeing how a flamer and missile launcher are not a pair of special weapons.

When you say "they are just lesser daemons," I don't know what you mean by that. I've never played this army before, so I have no idea what the appropriate way to use them would be.

Your suggestion on my Dread is to drop some of the upgrades, but there's barely any "bling" there. Are you saying I should ditch the extra armor? The heavy flamer?

Re Raptors: again, what do you mean by "pair of weapons." Are flamers and meltaguns not "weapons"?

Re obliterators, could you elaborate on what you mean by "overburdened early game"?

These things that are only "ok"; am I going to encounter problems with them in games? If so, what?

Considering several of your suggestions involve dropping upgrades, how would you suggest I spend the newly available points?

I'm not a grizzled veteran of this game, and I haven't really played since 3rd edition. My original list had Noise Marines in it, but apparently I was using them wrong (according to vague complaints much like yours) so I opted for two CSM squads. I've built one CSM squad so far, but I can still put together Noise Marines.

Why is it that I can never seem to get substantive criticisms and help on my army lists? I see good advice all over this board, but never in my direction. Is it because I didn't say "hai I be a n00b! halp?"

Cheers,

Exile

Special Weapons are Meltas, Plasma, Flamers.
Heavy Weapons are the Heavey Weapons (ie, Missile Launcher).
___________________

I'm just reminding those that read "Deamonettes" to not assume they are 'real' daemonettes, but lesser daemons. There is a big difference these days.

As for the dread, this is what I mean, I call it 'bling' is more to do with "if you really want it you can keep it, but if you are hurting for points, you won't miss them that much" sor tof angle.

As for a 'pair' pair, I'm talking about doubling weapons, 2 meltas and 2 flamers. Performance may not be as flexible, but they will do 2.5 times better at the appointed role, and generally CSM/Raptors have pistols and close combat attacks to back up the more rare anti-vehicle weapons.

For oblits, there is not a whole lot of ranged weaponry, and it's more important to crack open transports with ranged element than rely on the troopers to crack them up close because you lose initiative that way.

Vague? Forgive me, but I do not remember what I have said about the Noise Marines.
Maybe hinting how they don't work very well in this 5th ed environment due to board space and the general mech environment of competitive players (but your meta could be way different).
Noise Marines are shoehorned into maybe 2-3 options of load-outs, not cost efficient either.

Either way, my suggestions are of how I see the unit. Whether or not they work for you is up to you. Best way to find out is to proxy and try them out. Maybe you won't encounter the problems I lay out or find solutions to circumvent them.

As for 'ok' comments, everything has pros an cons. Generally when I say 'ok', or 'decent', I'm noting that they are functional choices.

As for substantive, maybe it's all the extra 'fluff' that's putting some people off...or it's a low on the number of active posters or something.

If you want something specific and direct from some of the other posters who do it 'better', then approach them via Personal Message. It's direct and I'm sure if you are casual and friendly you'll get a responce you are looking for with no non-sense maximization.

Hey guys, I made a few new edits to the list. I've traded out one of the CSM squads for a noise marine squad because I want to test it out. I've also cut out some of the fat in the list, enough to add a third obliterator. The list is still exactly 1500. One question: should I field these guys together, or each as an independent entry in the force organization chart?

Thanks,

Exile

ExiledinElysium wrote:Hey folks,

I posted my first draft a couple weeks ago, and I've since made some changes, and I'd like another round of help. It's 1500 on the money, so hopefully it's good as it stands. I'm hoping the great folks on Dakka will give me some insight on what's good and bad about this list, how I can expect it to perform, what tactics I could use to maximize its effectiveness, and maybe some changes I could make to improve it.

Thanks,

Exile

and here's the list...

Vol'Vash Mekhael, the Archangel
Daemon Prince
Mark of Slaanesh
wings
Warptime
so you take mos but give him warptime? give him lash please
Marcus Uriel, Keeper of Names
Chaos Sorcerer
Mark of Slaanesh
wings
personal icon
meltabombs
Lash of Submission
looks fine not a fan of the melta bombs tho
The Choir
Noise Marines x10
personal icon
sonic blasters x5
Noise Champion
power weapon
doom siren
meltabombs
Rhino
Imo give them all sonic blasters or none at all then take a unit with just a champ doom siren and powerfist i know he has I5 but the unit needs some tank busting ness and im personally not a fan of melta bombs
The Cleansed
Chaos Space Marines x10
Icon of Slaanesh
flamer x2
Aspiring Champion
power weapon
meltabombs
Rhino
give the champ a pfist
The Blessed Children
Daemonettes x10
not a huge fan of lessse daemons tbh
Elias, the Fury Reborn
Chaos Dreadnought
additional Dread CCW
extra armor
heavy flamer
this is the best loadout for an other wise subpar unit IMO take a termicide unit
The Ascendant
Chaos Raptors x9
Icon of Slaanesh
flamer x2, or meltagun
Aspiring Champion
lightning claw pair
meltabombs
9 is alot a heck of alot 6 should do you well
The Trumpets
Obliterator Cult x3
good

you need more bodies try getting a unit of noise marines with a champ,pfist doom siren and a rhino. every last unit doesnt need melta bombs powerfists will do you just fine. at least i find pfists to be better than mbombs saves pts too

lukesdabest wrote:

ExiledinElysium wrote:Hey folks,

I posted my first draft a couple weeks ago, and I've since made some changes, and I'd like another round of help. It's 1500 on the money, so hopefully it's good as it stands. I'm hoping the great folks on Dakka will give me some insight on what's good and bad about this list, how I can expect it to perform, what tactics I could use to maximize its effectiveness, and maybe some changes I could make to improve it.

Thanks,

Exile

and here's the list...

Vol'Vash Mekhael, the Archangel
Daemon Prince
Mark of Slaanesh
wings
Warptime
so you take mos but give him warptime? give him lash please
Marcus Uriel, Keeper of Names
Chaos Sorcerer
Mark of Slaanesh
wings
personal icon
meltabombs
Lash of Submission
looks fine not a fan of the melta bombs tho
The Choir
Noise Marines x10
personal icon
sonic blasters x5
Noise Champion
power weapon
doom siren
meltabombs
Rhino
Imo give them all sonic blasters or none at all then take a unit with just a champ doom siren and powerfist i know he has I5 but the unit needs some tank busting ness and im personally not a fan of melta bombs
The Cleansed
Chaos Space Marines x10
Icon of Slaanesh
flamer x2
Aspiring Champion
power weapon
meltabombs
Rhino
give the champ a pfist
The Blessed Children
Daemonettes x10
not a huge fan of lessse daemons tbh
Elias, the Fury Reborn
Chaos Dreadnought
additional Dread CCW
extra armor
heavy flamer
this is the best loadout for an other wise subpar unit IMO take a termicide unit
The Ascendant
Chaos Raptors x9
Icon of Slaanesh
flamer x2, or meltagun
Aspiring Champion
lightning claw pair
meltabombs
9 is alot a heck of alot 6 should do you well
The Trumpets
Obliterator Cult x3
good

you need more bodies try getting a unit of noise marines with a champ,pfist doom siren and a rhino. every last unit doesnt need melta bombs powerfists will do you just fine. at least i find pfists to be better than mbombs saves pts too

lukesdabeast has it right, lesser deamons can be good only if you play them properly, in codex csm their is no diffrence between a deamonette and a bloodletter so keep that in mind, and WHY WHY make a deamon prince mos and a sorcerer but NO LASH, WHY ELSE WOULD YOU MAKE IT LIKE THAT other than that it looks good

Um...because Warptime makes him better in combat, and I'm not trying to make a Lash list?

What's wrong with meltabombs? Also, I'm not seeing how powerfists instead of meltabombs saves points. I'll try out both.

I've heard a good deal of mixed review regarding lesser daemons. They sound like fun to me, and I have the unit already, so I'm going to try them out.

Why might 9 raptors cause problems? Seems like a solid idea to me...

Thanks,

Exile