Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello Dakka,
I'm a new space marine player and I'm wondering if there are any tips you can all give me on going up against Tau...
My opponent has an army of mostly battlesuits, and I'm new so I'm limited in my skill/tactical know how... as well as models to field...

I have 2x AOBR, so have 2 captains, tac. squads, and dreads, and 10 Termies...
I have picked up a Razorback Kit, and a LR Crusader...
I'm in need of advice...

Thanks again to all those who make DakkaDakka great!!!
Isaiah

Best advice I can give going up against Tau, is to get into melee as quickly as possible.

Put one Tact Squad in the Rhino/Razorback, and the Terminators in the LRC. Without more transports though, your troops are out in the open too much. If you can't afford to get another Rhino/Razorback, my suggestion would be to have the foot-slogging marines follow closely behind the LRC, to help provide as much cover as possible.

Against Tau, you don't want to get into a shooting match with, unless you can bring a good combination of CC together with it. I usually like Combat Squading my Tact Squads, and having my Heavy Weapon taking pot shots at their vehicles, while the other squad continues forward in a Rhino/Razorback to confront them in CC.

Good luck!

Assault squads are good against T'au. move up and stay out of LOS and in cover until you can use that 12" move to assault him.

Scouts in LSS can get a first turn charge which is something T'au simply can't deal with.

Scouts can also outflank. 10 of them with BPs, CCWs and 1 PF will make any T'au nervous.

Get up close, the suits while having good strength have average initiative and ws, so do not be afraid to get stuck in. Use the land raider as cover, if he has no railguns, he will have to rely on fusion blaster which means he will have to get close.
For melee scouts are good, assault marines are also good. When it comes to shooting, assault cannons are great for dealing with suits.

Get devastator squad with four missile launchers, split into two combat squads each with two missile launchers to punish those darned suits. Other wise, +1 to what everyone else has said.

EDIT: If he has broadsides with max shield drones, be afraid, take less vehicles, you need a lot of firepower on foot (tactical squads) to get rid of those.

Mustela wrote:Get devastator squad with four missile launchers, split into two combat squads each with two missile launchers to punish those darned suits. Other wise, +1 to what everyone else has said.

EDIT: If he has broadsides with max shield drones, be afraid, take less vehicles, you need a lot of firepower on foot (tactical squads) to get rid of those.

1st off you really shouldn't tailor your army to fight Tau, any good all comers list can beat Tau. If you're having problems with Tau the problem is either a flawed all comers list, or the Tau player is using better tactics. Tau are a 2nd tier army that has a few really nasty strengths that can be downright dangerous in the hands of a skilled player. The trick is how to use common space marine units to counter Tau.

If the Tau player has a single unit of pathfinders they are the most dangerous unit in his army. It's best to kill them off early in the game.

When placing objectives always place them out in the open, and never in woods if he has Kroot. SM have better armor than Tau and can better endure holding an objective that is out in the open, furthermore Tau can reduce cover saves with markerlights.

Broadsides with max shield drones is nothing that 5 scouts in a LSS can't handle, and by handle I mean tarpit for the rest of the game. That or you could just kill his unit of pathfinders. A LSS plus scouts is great addition to pretty much any SM list, and they absolutely terrify both Tau and IG.

If you have ABR dread they do great in a drop pod. Drop right next to pathfinders and light them up with a heavy flamer.

I agree with schadenfreude for the most part, however, a devastator squad with four missile launchers can come in handy against a lot of foes. I have never tried a LSS. A clever Tau player will always do well vs. Space Marines. I know, all of my gaming friends play Tau. About pathfinders - they can be dangerous, sure, but they tend to infiltrate, which means their close, so you can just attack them quickly, and eliminate the threat. schadenfreude, is right about better armor, and you will almost always get saves. Rhinos help against all comers.

schadenfreude wrote:

If you have ABR dread they do great in a drop pod. Drop right next to pathfinders and light them up with a heavy flamer.

Be VERY Careful when dropping dreads next to Tau...

With a base Str of 5 on the base troopers guns, the troops and take a 6 inch move, get behind your dread, and rapid fire a the back of it... Penetrating on a 6....

I can't tell you how many dreads I have killed that way...

I find Drop Pod dreads, Drop Pod Tactical Squads, Drop Pod Sternguard, and Drop Pod Assault Squads are really good against Tau. But everyone's basic advice of get in close and assault is spot on. Drop Pod a few units into his face and give the assault elements of your army in the LRC time to move in for the kill. Pathfinders are probably your worst enemy, but it's nothing a flamer or two can't handle. I agree with the assessment that tailoring your list to fight Tau, or any other army, specifically is a bad idea but seeing as you are a new player I think it's ok for now. Try some things out and let us know how it went.

Not really trying to tailor my list to just Tau.. just looking for some advice on how to approach tau with my space marines...
I'm building a mech list, starting with 2 sets of AOBR and have added a LRC and a Rhino/Razorback... I'm thinking of adding a battleforce, or just more tanks/transports to my army... wondering what could be good against Tau... I'm thinking that I might get the battleforce so then I can use scouts or assault marines, and that'll give me another Tac. Squad, and if I add a Sternguard box, I'll get 2 Tac squads out of it... Then maybee another Razorback and some Predator Tanks...

Tau opponent has an Ethereal and Honor Guard, some regular troops, and suits that are jump suits, and others that have Railguns that are like heavy weapons suits... so far that's all, and he's got the pathfinders you spoke of...

I'm thinking I just need more experience to figure out how to approach his army, but any tactical or list advice will be appreciated... thanks to all who have posted.
Isaiah

drop podding sternguard pack heavy flamers will just make his fire warriors/kroot/path finders cry Str5 AP4,ignores covers. give them 10 bodies and a PF sgt and you have a viable unit now in place to threaten his entire gunline. basically just +1 to what everyone else has said before though.

So I'll put my voice to agreement with that you shouldn't really focus on tailoring your purchases and army list towards beating Tau. You have bigger threats out there... it's more money efficient to create an all comers list.

The trick to beat Tau is to eliminate their ranged firepower advantage. Whether that's Drop Pods, Fast Moving Assault units, MSUs (Multiple Small Units, ie: more than he can shoot before you get to him). So with your purchases, you first have to realize your singular Land Raider will be eating any Railguns he has. (The heavy weapons suits have them, they're the Broadsides we've mentioned.)

So if you want to use the Land Raiders and make them a key part of your force, I'd say definitely invest in a second. 2 is nearly always better than one as he has to split his fire between them, but they can come from different directions, split his army... etc.

You'll never outshoot Tau battlesuits, so your objective should be to get fast movers that can force them to attack the units you want... get them out in the open. They're statlines are just Space marines with an extra wound and a fancy jet pack. Really. If you have a few Lascannon/TL Plasma Rifle Razorbacks interspersed throughout your force you can force him into cover, out of your vehicle's line of sight. The bigger threats your units pose, the more he has to react to you, which is what you want.

So in essence... target saturation. Whatever your final list consists of, it should have multiple threats of multiple types. Make him choose. This should also reflect in your tactics. While you may have two speeders and a few razorbacks on one flank that can shoot him to pieces, you could have a Land Raider and a Rhino on the other flank charging to assault him. You want to control the fight... get in his face.

And definitely watch out for those pathfinders. They give his own units better shooting, reduce cover saves, and lower leadership on pinning tests. If you have a chance, kill them... but what often works better is staying out of their line of sight and make him shoot you with his BS3 of everything else.

Another way to beat Tau is to simply deney them shots. In objective games, try to place the objectives so you can hide for a couple turns before exposing your units to fire. Then mid game, make a bee line to the objectives, and push the defending Tau off with close combat. Then stand and hold for a turn or so, while they fire on you, or play to your strenght by trying to take the objectives back in close combat. Chances are you will be able to survive a turn or two of fire with the excellent power armor the normal marine possess.

In assault missions, try to let him setup first. Then, attack on one flank with practically everything you've got. Overwhelm that one section, deneying him the ability to shoot with his unengaged forces. Then roll up his line. Don't attack piecemeal, everything needs to hit like a ton of bricks at the same time. You will take losses to his fire.

It is possible to win a shooting contest with Tau when playing kill points, but hard to pull off. Hide your forces from fire while concentrating fire on an exposed Tau unit. Again, going second and minimally exposing yourself on his weakest flank helps. Kill off one unit, while preventing him from doing the same. Makes for a boring game, but a win is a win...



Hope that helps!

Warprat

If he has no tanks or broadsides, go for his suits when you can.

Broadsides are NASTEH! when they target land raiders, avoid this.

Aim for the tau's marker lights, they cannot afford to loose them. Heavy flamers will deal with firewarriors if you have any, and assault squads are a must. Only bother fielding one captain, if their both AOBR they are kinda fail...

Definately combat squad your tac marines, it means theres more targets to shoot at for the tau player (but watch out for killpoints!)

My friend has been a staunch tau player for about 2 years now. After playing him extensively, there are two things that i have found work well, 1st is o make everything into an overwhelming threat. Tau love when things come at them in waves because they deal with it just a wave at a time. But if you can make him nervous that everything is coming at him at the same time he has to struggle with where to place his shots. The other thing that works well for me is making sure that you get the target priority right. They love to throw tempting units at you for you to waste your time killing, but yo have to focus on the threats. Target priority will almost always be 1) Pathfinders. (2) Broadsides (3) Suits. That's not to say that they can't have other threats on the table but if you get to distracted with the other things those are the things that will destroy you.

Missile launchers work wonders against suits by the way. Long fangs with 4 ML or Tactical squads that are geared out with ML are the bane of my friends existence.

Hope that helps.

axelsfolks wrote:Hello Dakka,
I'm a new space marine player and I'm wondering if there are any tips you can all give me on going up against Tau...
My opponent has an army of mostly battlesuits, and I'm new so I'm limited in my skill/tactical know how... as well as models to field...

I have 2x AOBR, so have 2 captains, tac. squads, and dreads, and 10 Termies...
I have picked up a Razorback Kit, and a LR Crusader...
I'm in need of advice...

Thanks again to all those who make DakkaDakka great!!!
Isaiah

My advice to you would be to try to rob tau of their two advantages: shooting and markerlights. when choosing what to shoot or assault, give 1st priority to units with marker lights, 2nd priority to units with weapons that are high strength and low AP. For instance if you have the option to charge a crisis team loaded out with plasma weapons or a fire warrior squad, charge the crisis suits, they are the more dangerous opponent. Or if you have the option to flame fire warriors or path finders, flame the path finders. stay in cover as much as possible. If he has to use his marker light counters to reduce your cover save then its costing him resources to do it that otherwise would be spent on boosting his BS or whatever else marker lights can do for him. AF

The Ravening Jaw wrote:My friend has been a staunch tau player for about 2 years now. After playing him extensively, there are two things that i have found work well, 1st is to make everything into an overwhelming threat. Tau love when things come at them in waves because they deal with it just a wave at a time.

This is very good advice. Don't concentrate merely on the list building but also think your deployment and tactics. Common beginner mistake when playing Tau is to think "I will have to get something to close combat as soon as possible". Whereas this is not a poor idea as such, it easily leads to situations where your fast attack units come first and get rapid fired to death. Next turn your vehicles get closer...oh, they are blown to bits by Missile pods and Railguns. Then your footsloggers come...aw crap, they are again rapid fired.

Kill the ethereal. I kid you not, that will cripple the army. Everyone has to take a leadership test, and either become slightly better or much MUCH worse. Kill the broadsides and the ethereal, then hit the rest of the suits. The basic infantry shouldn't be a big problem, just hit them with some blast templates or flamers.

Yes, get rid of the etherial.

no self-respecting T'au player uses them. Show him why.


Your friend doesn't appear to be using the MANDATORY Crisis suit commander as an HQ. make him do that.


Assault Marines are very good against T'au, simply put they scare the out of them. they can use their mobility to stay out of sight and then once within 18" assault them.

he does use the suit that is a commander too, one of his suits is an HQ choice....
I'm building my list for fun, and just using the models that I like and what not...
I'm soaking up all the tactical advice here and loving it... I think next game I will throw everything up one side of the table and see if I can keep him from shooting into combat...
So far, the other half and her Orks have better luck than my SM......
Thanks again for all the advice....

I am thinking of running my next game with the TL Lascannon razorback, with captain and combat squad with flamer... hold the ML squad back.... and put the Termies into the LRC.... then make the second Tac. Squad run behind the tanks or whatever, to get into position.... I can't seem to ever get the Terminators into CC, and the Dreadnoughts haven't been effective either.... I'm thinking that since I finished modeling the LRC today, that with another big target everything might fare better, and we'll go from there...
I want to add more tanks, Rhino/Razorbacks and Predators... I don't think my list can afford 2 LR tanks, with other targets is having 2 not so critical?

Thanks again for all the help,
Isaiah

PS I haven't really thought much about Fast Attack Choices, is that something my army NEEDS to be effective?

axelsfolks wrote:he does use the suit that is a commander too, one of his suits is an HQ choice....

I am thinking of running my next game with the TL Lascannon razorback, with captain and combat squad with flamer... hold the ML squad back.... and put the Termies into the LRC.... then make the second Tac. Squad run behind the tanks or whatever, to get into position.... I can't seem to ever get the Terminators into CC, and the Dreadnoughts haven't been effective either.... I'm thinking that since I finished modeling the LRC today, that with another big target everything might fare better, and we'll go from there...
I want to add more tanks, Rhino/Razorbacks and Predators... I don't think my list can afford 2 LR tanks, with other targets is having 2 not so critical?

Thanks again for all the help,
Isaiah

PS I haven't really thought much about Fast Attack Choices, is that something my army NEEDS to be effective?

You really don't need anthing powerful to beat Tau in Hand to Hand. Tactical sqauds do just fine. Your vehicles will get blown up fast by the rail guns, so be carefull. Just don't expect your vehicles to survive long. Personally, I would just go with a bunch of Tacticals with cheap Rhinos. Drop pods would be awsome. Maybe some scouts. But watch out that you do not attack in waves... You want all your guys to hit on the same turn! Like turn 1 or 2.

I have used Tactical Termies on foot, and had success with them. It's hard to get them into CC, but if you can get them to Broadsides, they work great. They will destroy anything they can touch, even fast moving skimmers, should you get the charge with 4 or so models. And it's fun to see the disappointment on a Tau players face when thier rail gun either fails to hit, wound, or the Termie makes its invulnerable save.

I have found combi-flamers, flamers and plasma cannons to be effective in Tac squads. Kroot hounds have good init, so watch out for those. They are the best CC model Tau have on the cheap, and work well alongside the Kroot warriors. But, flamers can reach out into woods and fry Kroot good. Plasma cannons work great on everything infantry, (including suits and broadsides which are not vehicles, just guys in suites.) Assault the shooty enemy and shoot the assaulty enemy.

Long range guns really don't work well on Tau vehicles, because they can have the steath ability that makes you roll (like it is night) to see them. So plan on getting close to blow stuff up, like within 12". Even krak genades will work pretty good, because Tau vehicles have weaker armor in the rear.

All the Tau units have special rules that make each of them super annoying. But many units are dependent on other units for support. Tau need to work together to be effective. Learn those combinations. Concentrate on destroying that relationship when whenever you have a little breathing room.


Best of Luck

Warprat

Thanks again for all the help guys... there's a lot of knowledge on these forums. I'm hoping to get some better results next game...

I have a Capt. from AOBR, 2x actually, but only one has been modeled so far...
2x tact. squads ML/Flamer (AOBR style)
10 AOBR Termies, I've been running a squad of 8
2x MM/CCW SB Dreads (AOBR)
and I've added a TL Lascannon Razorback (could be a rhino)
and a Land Raider Crusader + MM

I believe that I'm right about 1500, any list suggestions would be great.... looking to build a kinda Armored Spearhead list ... small changes or just additions to make 2000... that's my goal 2000 pts. and then I think I'm done with this army... Thinking of another Tac. or 2 so I have other weapons options and can run 3 or 4 squads... More Transports... and tanks....

Thanks again Dakka