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Can the techmarine using the cannon have a servitor unit attached to him? The rule does say he has the normal rules but I do understand rules and upgrades can be different.
Wondering since normal techmarines are elites and the Thunderfire cannons are heavy, sorry if i missed something just do not want to try this and find out I am cheating.

He can take Servitors, but can't join them until after the Cannon dies.

Thanks for the fast response and makes sense...again thanks!

Monster Rain wrote:He can take Servitors, but can't join them until after the Cannon dies.

Not as simple as that. RaW the Thunderfire Techmarine never gets the IC rule once the cannon dies. Lots of debate about this in the past!

I was about to say something, then Gwar! beat me to the punch.

The Thunderfire Techmarine gunner is not an IC. He doesn't become one when the cannon is destroyed. So he can't join a unit of servitors.

Furthermore, you may take one (1) unit of Servitors for every Techmarine you field, but the Techmarine gunner is not a Techmarine until the Thunderfire cannon is destroyed (at least in terms of FoC). He's part of the Thunderfire cannon for all intents and purposes (such as Blessing of the Omnissiah, which he does not gain until the TFC is destroyed).

However, the above paragraph is debatable (and debated!). I say no. Some say yes.

The way I interpret the Marine codex, you cannot take a unit of Servitors for the TFC, and the Techmarine gunner cannot join a unit of servitors taken for a different Techmarine.

Gwar! wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:He can take Servitors, but can't join them until after the Cannon dies.

Not as simple as that. RaW the Thunderfire Techmarine never gets the IC rule once the cannon dies. Lots of debate about this in the past!

I'm pretty sure it specifically says, in the codex, that the Techmarine doesn't benefit from the IC special rule until the Cannon is destroyed. After that, why couldn't he join a unit?

SaintHazard wrote:The way I interpret the Marine codex, you cannot take a unit of Servitors for the TFC, and the Techmarine gunner cannot join a unit of servitors taken for a different Techmarine.

For every Techmarine, you can take a unit of Servitors.

Seems pretty cut and dry, really.

Monster Rain wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:He can take Servitors, but can't join them until after the Cannon dies.

Not as simple as that. RaW the Thunderfire Techmarine never gets the IC rule once the cannon dies. Lots of debate about this in the past!

I'm pretty sure it specifically says, in the codex, that the Techmarine doesn't benefit from the IC special rule until the Cannon is destroyed. After that, why couldn't he join a unit?

SaintHazard wrote:The way I interpret the Marine codex, you cannot take a unit of Servitors for the TFC, and the Techmarine gunner cannot join a unit of servitors taken for a different Techmarine.

For every Techmarine, you can take a unit of Servitors.

Seems pretty cut and dry, really.

i agree why coudnt you take a group of servitors

taylorton147 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:
Seems pretty cut and dry, really.

i agree why coudnt you take a group of servitors

SaintHazard wrote:
The Thunderfire Techmarine gunner is not an IC. He doesn't become one when the cannon is destroyed. So he can't join a unit of servitors.

Furthermore, you may take one (1) unit of Servitors for every Techmarine you field, but the Techmarine gunner is not a Techmarine until the Thunderfire cannon is destroyed (at least in terms of FoC). He's part of the Thunderfire cannon for all intents and purposes (such as Blessing of the Omnissiah, which he does not gain until the TFC is destroyed).

kirsanth wrote:

taylorton147 wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:
Seems pretty cut and dry, really.

i agree why coudnt you take a group of servitors

SaintHazard wrote:
The Thunderfire Techmarine gunner is not an IC. He doesn't become one when the cannon is destroyed. So he can't join a unit of servitors.

Furthermore, you may take one (1) unit of Servitors for every Techmarine you field, but the Techmarine gunner is not a Techmarine until the Thunderfire cannon is destroyed (at least in terms of FoC). He's part of the Thunderfire cannon for all intents and purposes (such as Blessing of the Omnissiah, which he does not gain until the TFC is destroyed).

touche my good man

SaintHazard wrote:
Furthermore, you may take one (1) unit of Servitors for every Techmarine you field, but the Techmarine gunner is not a Techmarine until the Thunderfire cannon is destroyed (at least in terms of FoC). He's part of the Thunderfire cannon for all intents and purposes (such as Blessing of the Omnissiah, which he does not gain until the TFC is destroyed).

His unit entry says Techmarine.

Your entire argument is based upon a Techmarine, clearly listed as such, not being a Techmarine.

SaintHazard wrote:The way I interpret the Marine codex, you cannot take a unit of Servitors for the TFC, and the Techmarine gunner cannot join a unit of servitors taken for a different Techmarine.

Couldn't any IC join any unit he wanted?

Monster Rain wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:He can take Servitors, but can't join them until after the Cannon dies.

Not as simple as that. RaW the Thunderfire Techmarine never gets the IC rule once the cannon dies. Lots of debate about this in the past!

I'm pretty sure it specifically says, in the codex, that the Techmarine doesn't benefit from the IC special rule until the Cannon is destroyed. After that, why couldn't he join a unit?

All the rule says is that he doesn't benefit from the IC rule while the Cannon is alive. Good for him. Nowhere does it say he gains the IC rule when the cannon is Destroyed.

For every Techmarine, you can take a unit of Servitors.

Seems pretty cut and dry, really.

As stated, the "Techmarine Gunner" is not a "Techmarine", the same way a "Storm Bolter" is not a "Bolter".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:His unit entry says Techmarine.

Your entire argument is based upon a Techmarine, clearly listed as such, not being a Techmarine.

And the Unit composition says "Techmarine Gunner".

Therefore, by your logic, you never get a Gunner, so the Thunderfire cannot ever be fired. Touché.

Page 73 (C:SM) "Note that the Techmarine does not benefit from the Independant Character and Blessing of the Omnissiah unless his Thunderfire Cannon has been destroyed".

Pretty clear that RaW is that once the cannon is gone, he becomes an IC.

I can really see the ability to purchase the servitor squad but they'll be subject to mindlock each turn until (if ever)the Techmarine is able to join them.

agnosto wrote:Page 73 (C:SM) "Note that the Techmarine does not benefit from the Independant Character and Blessing of the Omnissiah unless his Thunderfire Cannon has been destroyed".

Pretty clear that RaW is that once the cannon is gone, he becomes an IC.

Ninja'd.

"Unless" is a pretty big deal there.

Gwar! wrote:Therefore, by your logic, you never get a Gunner, so the Thunderfire cannot ever be fired. Touché.

You'd like to think so, wouldn't you? Don't talk to me about logic, Gwar. You distort the rules for people who are asking honest questions to amuse yourself and it's pretty goddamn sad.

agnosto wrote:Page 73 (C:SM) "Note that the Techmarine does not benefit from the Independant Character and Blessing of the Omnissiah unless his Thunderfire Cannon has been destroyed".

Pretty clear that RaW is that once the cannon is gone, he becomes an IC.

I can really see the ability to purchase the servitor squad but they'll be subject to mindlock each turn until (if ever)the Techmarine is able to join them.

No, it is not.

What does the rule say? It says he doesn't benefit from it when the Cannon is alive.

It does NOT say he gains the rules (which he doesn't have in his Special Rules) when it is destroyed.

Reading Rules is Tech, as they say in M:tG circles.

Gwar! wrote:

agnosto wrote:Page 73 (C:SM) "Note that the Techmarine does not benefit from the Independant Character and Blessing of the Omnissiah unless his Thunderfire Cannon has been destroyed".

Pretty clear that RaW is that once the cannon is gone, he becomes an IC.

I can really see the ability to purchase the servitor squad but they'll be subject to mindlock each turn until (if ever)the Techmarine is able to join them.

No, it is not.

What does the rule say? It says he doesn't benefit from it when the Cannon is alive.

It does NOT say he gains the rules (which he doesn't have in his Special Rules) when it is destroyed.

Reading Rules is Tech, as they say in M:tG circles.

Oh common. It says that "Each Thunderfire Cannon is crewed by a single Techmarine (see page 71 for special rules)" and then goes on to say that he doesn't benefit from two abilities "unless the Thunderfire Cannon is destroyed". This means that the conditions change with the destruction of the Thunderfire Cannon otherwise there's no need for the conditional to be added.

It says he doesn't benefit from it when the Cannon is alive

No, it says he doesn't benefit from it unless the cannon is destroyed. There's a difference.

Also the rules for the thunderfire cannon on page 73 tell you to refer to page 71 for the special rules for the techmarine. One of those special rules is Independent Character.

If you want to argue the rules are unclear because of the use of the word Gunner in one part of the entry (while it is ommited in the other two parts of the entry) then that is fine. But its not as clear cut as you claim.

Modquisition on.

This thread has been reported. Lets leave off the snarkiness. Thanks much.

winterman wrote:

It says he doesn't benefit from it when the Cannon is alive

No, it says he doesn't benefit from it unless the cannon is destroyed. There's a difference.

Also the rules for the thunderfire cannon on page 73 tell you to refer to page 71 for the special rules for the techmarine. One of those special rules is Independent Character.

If you want to argue the rules are unclear because of the use of the word Gunner in one part of the entry (while it is ommited in the other two parts of the entry) then that is fine. But its not as clear cut as you claim.

And the rules on page 142 make no mention of IC, though they do mention BotO.

Why leave one out and not the other? Perhaps it's because... he doesn't have the IC rule?

Now you're just being obtuse.

I'm done.

agnosto wrote:Now you're just being obtuse.

I'm done.

How is "He doesn't have the special rule listed in his special rules" being obtuse??

No, really. Please explain because I have no idea how that thought even works.

agnosto wrote:Page 73 (C:SM) "Note that the Techmarine does not benefit from the Independant Character and Blessing of the Omnissiah unless his Thunderfire Cannon has been destroyed".

Pretty clear that RaW is that once the cannon is gone, he becomes an IC.

Yes and no. The strict RAW argument being made here is that he can't benefit from the IC rule until the cannon is gone... but at that point, he still doesn't benefit from it because he doesn't actually have it in his unit entry.

This has been debated to death in the past. At the end of the day, we all know what they meant, and nobody is actually going to insist that your Techmarine isn't an IC once the cannon is gone. It's loose wording, with the IC rule left out of his entry to (presumably) avoid confusion while he does have a cannon.

The original question has been answered, so I think it's time to move on here before the thread gets any sillier.