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I was wondering if landspeeders with heavy flamers and tornado-heavy flamers if they work well against
a horde army ( orks in particular).
keep in mind I only have enough points for 2 and the game is 1500 points (these won't be only way of hurting horde but they will be the only dedicated anti-horde)

this seems to be a perennial topic....
yes heavy flamers are awesome at killing ork hordes. the typhoon is

A more expensive
B lower strength
C higher ap
and does not
D auto hit
E ignore cover

Nonethless some people, for reasons known only to themselves and to god, prefer the typhoon.
AF

Because the typhoon doesn't have to be right next to an angry nob. Sure it'll need sixes to hit, but would you take that chance to kill 10 orks in exchange for your speeder?

And it is useful against mech with its krak missiles

6s to hit, 6s to glance, 6s to wreck (if in a squadron)
yes those odds are acceptable to me. land speeders are more resilient than generally given credit for. what will probably happen if any attacks get through is you wont be able to shoot it next turn.

Actually.... the op was considering double heavy flamers... so in cc you need 4's to hit. And the boyz are not the ones to be worried about. That angry nob is...

And a land speeder idea I've been thinking of is a typhoon with HF. Idk how that would work...

I'd only take dual HF if I have vulkan. I have no doubt that dual HF would be great normally but 2 S5 AP4 rerolling to wound flamers is just scary!

i play blood angels so what would you reccomend for me for cheap anti-horde?

Da_Mega_Grot wrote:i play blood angels so what would you reccomend for me for cheap anti-horde?

ah. well land speeders are still a good choice. you also have all the rhino chassis vehicles as fast so baal preads can poke a good deal of holes in a unit while threating even AV14.

with my 130 points to sepnd all i can afford is a tl autocannon or infernus cannon on it no hf sponsons

Da_Mega_Grot wrote:i play blood angels so what would you reccomend for me for cheap anti-horde?

Your best anti horde are Bolt Pistols and close combat weapons.

Im running min sized raz back assault squads

all the assault marines I can muster up for 130 points is 6 of them and a flamer

if you run a pair of dual flamer land speeders there won't be any nobz left at all. another thing about land speeder durability is the pretty obvious tactic: kill the stuff that is threatening to them. this is often an achievable goal with 1-2 turns of shooting from, say, half a dozen land speeders.
AF

True, though you could say that about anything.

And if you're not feeling the 2 HF speeders, a Baal pred would do nicely. If flamestorm, just scout as close as you can, then during your actual turn, move up 12 and burn something. If TL-AC, scout for side armor shots or something.

I'm not really a fan of sponsons for the baal. On a normal pred, sponsons are great, you can shoot and kinda move if needed. On a Baal, you want full mobility.

I agree. theyre expensive, restrictive, and against armor 3 targets they can actually work against you because of wound allocation.

I find it odd that no one has pointed out the severe tactical drawbacks to dual HF. In order to fire both weapons, you need to be moving 6" or less since they are not defensive weapons. As such, your ork opponent would need 4s to hit. Add to that the fact that in order to set up a nice shot you need to end the prior turn in the 6", and you have a very limited ability to actually ever get both HF shots in a single turn.

I don't think dual HF speeders are a good option.

Dracos wrote:I find it odd that no one has pointed out the severe tactical drawbacks to dual HF. In order to fire both weapons, you need to be moving 6" or less since they are not defensive weapons. As such, your ork opponent would need 4s to hit. Add to that the fact that in order to set up a nice shot you need to end the prior turn in the 6", and you have a very limited ability to actually ever get both HF shots in a single turn.

I don't think dual HF speeders are a good option.

Actually.... the op was considering double heavy flamers... so in cc you need 4's to hit. And the boyz are not the ones to be worried about.

I would not double up on weapon on a Land Speeder. MM/HF is a good combo. You want to be moving 12" a turn with your speeder so you can only fire one weapon. Having 2 different guns means you get a choice of weapons. Driving 6" to fire both guns means you are hit on a 4+ in close combat and that limits your survivability.

with a single baal predator im still only dropping a single flamer template a turn whereas a squadran of 2 speeders with 1 flamer each drop 2 a turn
although I lose the scout move with the speeders i'm not seeing the advantages to the baals other than survivability

Dracos
dang I forgot about that. yeah you're right, the ork player would need 4s, although the squad would be greatly reduced.... just to be clear I dont think dual HF is the way to go either. Both because of the movement restrictions and because you dont always need a heavy flamer. I was responding to Blazing Ghost's saying the dual falmer land speeder would be in danger from an ork squad because it would have to get so close. I Dont think thats accurate; the ork squad would be dead.
AF

Well let's say theres 25 boys (including the nob)

The flamer template should cover about 8 and since there are two of them, 16 hits; about 10 orks.

There's 15 left... plus that nob unless you're playing a kid who throws wounds on his nob.

also remember that your opponent can do stuff to mitigate the damage caused by template weapons. Really, the only time you're going to be getting a juicy flamer hit is right after the orks come out of a low-roll consolidation or something.

As such, especially given their mobility, I don't know if I'd ever take more than like one. As said, you have other stuff in your army to handle hordes.

Like all those bolters?

Seriously, do not doubt thy holy bolter.

If you want templates, why not try a dreadnought with the Frag cannon (str 6, assault 2 rending) with a heavy flamer? You pop that bad boy in a drop pod and hes slinging quite a few wounds onto a blob. Of you could go with the afformentioned Baal predator and its flamestorm cannon, which will wipe out an entire squad of marines or take out good swaths of greenskins (although, not as good as say, the big pie plate off a vindicator, which can kill without being assaulted by the survivors)
Or, there is also the blood talons on a dreadnought which barring some bad rolls can take out over half or a 30 man squad in a single round.

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:Well let's say theres 25 boys (including the nob)

The flamer template should cover about 8 and since there are two of them, 16 hits; about 10 orks.

There's 15 left... plus that nob unless you're playing a kid who throws wounds on his nob.

For the 15 boyz its possible they'll kill the land speeder in close combat. I dont think its likely but its definitely possible. Its only a 70 point vehicle though if it kills 12 orks you break even. That's an entirely realistic goal for the speeder, and I think it has the potential to do alot better.

If there's two of them or vulkan is in the army (for me at least this is standard fair) then its 8x4 = 36 witrh 4/5 of those wounding or about 29 casualties. It's possible that the nob with a power klaw will kill 1, although I dont think its likely. Each attack has a less than 1/4 chance of killing a speeder. Even if he does though, the trade is worth it. Land Speeders can be suicided safely bc they're cheap, but the ork player just lost an awful lot of boyz.
AF


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ailaros wrote:also remember that your opponent can do stuff to mitigate the damage caused by template weapons. Really, the only time you're going to be getting a juicy flamer hit is right after the orks come out of a low-roll consolidation or something.

Depends on how many boyz the ork player is running. Once you start talking about more than 2 full size mobs they start getting in each other's way and there's not enough room to spread them out to avoid templates *and* concentrate them in one area of the board.
AF

for the most part I really like Slick's idea of the furioso dread with frag cannon and heavy flamer it seems cheap enough for me, and hitting 8 orks (from the earlier response) with each weapon deals out a total of 17 wounds on average and the dreadnought can follow up in combat if needed forcing them under mob rule status or some min sized assault squad can mop up 12 or 13 orks