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what kind of units that the empire has for 1,000 points can I use against 3x 8 man Bret. knights, a level 4 wizard that loves to the Transformation of Kadon(turns self into a Great Fire Dragon, oh god)
and/ or peasant bowmen, the bane to handgunners, and, finally, 2 trebuchets, literally the most powerful stone thrower in the game.
I thought of taking pistoliers or outriders so I can get in close with the Vanguard move and get to the flank of the knights to avoid them charging me first thing, taking a couple great cannons in order to counter his Trebuchets/ lance formation,( He takes them in 3x3 squads, so imagine if the cannon hit head-on, three almost garenteed kills!), crossbowmen to be able to strike his armorless crew at range( wounds on ) I actually did this last game, and on the next-to last turn I killed one of the trebuchets thanks to the accurate marksman, but took entire game, but they earned their points back! Level 4 wizard with lore of shadow,( hopefully get Pit of Shades and Penumbral Pendulum in order to kill the immobile trebuchets). I can probably get a pegasus- mounted captain equiped with the wyrmslayer sword and armour of meteoric iron( 1+ save, wounds on 4+ against high toughness targets 140 points) along with a Level 2 battle wizard with the lore of fire to fight the other trebuchet. Please tell me if I missed any other combinations and tell me what is best for 1,000 points and low budget(say, $50 this year, yeah, that low).
I currently own 20 swordsmen, 20 militia, 10 handgunners/ crossbowmen, master engineer, captain mounted and on foot, 8 Knights, and 10 Greatswordsmen, and a Wizard(made ONLY from greatsword kit, has fire coming from fingertips and blade.)

Halberds and swordsmen seem to be pretty solid options. Definitely some handgunners. Make sure you take a battle standard bearer to keep your troops in even difficult fights. Remember you cant spend more than 25% of your points for your army on lords and 25% on heros and 25% on rare, 50% maximum on special. So youll be stuck with a lvl 2 at that level for a wizard. If you don't go for offensive magic try a warrior priest in your main troops block. You might be able to squeeze in a few greatswords or knights. Maybe a cheap artillery unit. Also remember you need to spend at least 25% of your points on core choices also to make it legal. Not sure even if its legal running two trebuchets at that level ( not 100% sure as I dont have the book handy )

2 cannons is good..if you take a priest (gives you free dispel dice), and can make himself (and thus his unit) unbreakable then you can get a flagellant unit which will count as core troops....

Use min sized detachments to redirect his lance blocks..either way if he bites you get to (hopefully) charge him and thus deny him the lance formation advantages...

Your great swords are a good unit so take a big horde and put a warrior priest in with them so they all get to use hatred. Take a couple cannons and mortars and just light the board up with artillery, dont worry so much about his trebs. Empire is much better at range then the brets so it should be you he is afraid of. Pistoliers and Handgunners are good too. other then that just take large units and play aggressive. dont be afraid to engage those knights as a unit of 9 KotR cant take on large infantry bricks head on. you will eventually grind them down.

A couple big blocks of infantry with some detachments to flank the Bret lances.

Well first things first. Make him play with only a 1000 pts. What you have listed there is well over the point limit. Also Bretonnians are still required to have a BSB in every army.

The key to beating Brets is attrition. Do not advance, make him come to you under a hail of artillery, shooting, and magic. In close combat all you have to do is kill a couple of knights every round and not run. Even If he wins the fight the unit will be neutered. A flyer or fast cav are a better choice to deal with the treb.

BTW Brets hate the lore of metal.

Lexx wrote:Halberds and swordsmen seem to be pretty solid options. Definitely some handgunners. Make sure you take a battle standard bearer to keep your troops in even difficult fights. Remember you cant spend more than 25% of your points for your army on lords and 25% on heros and 25% on rare, 50% maximum on special. So youll be stuck with a lvl 2 at that level for a wizard. If you don't go for offensive magic try a warrior priest in your main troops block. You might be able to squeeze in a few greatswords or knights. Maybe a cheap artillery unit. Also remember you need to spend at least 25% of your points on core choices also to make it legal. Not sure even if its legal running two trebuchets at that level ( not 100% sure as I dont have the book handy )

Level 3 wizards are only 175, and 4 is 210, so I normally take the wand of jet or armour of Tarnus


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crimson Devil wrote:Well first things first. Make him play with only a 1000 pts. What you have listed there is well over the point limit. Also Bretonnians are still required to have a BSB in every army.

The key to beating Brets is attrition. Do not advance, make him come to you under a hail of artillery, shooting, and magic. In close combat all you have to do is kill a couple of knights every round and not run. Even If he wins the fight the unit will be neutered. A flyer or fast cav are a better choice to deal with the treb.

BTW Brets hate the lore of metal.

The last game what I did was use a level 2 and level 1 wizards, both with the lore of metal, and I took out 8 knights with the level 1 wizard because he was afraid of my stand and shoot, and My knights were charged by his, but a treb. shot scattered into the combat! It killed 7 knights, leaving my Templar Grand Master with 1 wound left and only the champion left. He also now venged to use a special item in the rulebook that ignores flaming attacks in the attached unit, so Lore of Metal is useless, so should I just play hero hammer? ( 4 captains with full plate armour and shields for 240)

There is no magic item that protects an entire army from flaming attacks. The Dragon's Claw only makes the beaer immune, not his unit. The Lore of Metal is not useless.

You do not need to beat him. His army will break itself on your wall of infantry. Bretonnians to be sucessful have to charge and break units in the first round of combat. If they don't they will not win the game. All you need to do is kill four knights a turn and not run. Take leadership, guns, and a huge block of swordmen.

Big blocks is the easy way to beat his knights as your gunna be steadfast but thats abit risky as hes got 2 trebs to smack your big units into the ground.

I would take 2 cannons and try to take out the trebs asap, a couple of big blocks of units to meet his charges head on, and a lvl 4 metal wizard would really hurt him and a bsb with the state troops.

Trebucket are 90 points each, so watch how he is counting his points. I am an experienced Bretonnian player, and we can easily beat any gun line. We have a 10 point banner that makes it so the enemy cant stand and shoot. We also have a 30 point banner that give us a 4+ ward against s5 and up shooting and magic missiles. Lore of metal spells wound us on a 4+ instead of 2+ because the horse doesn't count toward our armor save when working out the spell. Your friend is over points by 100-300. He is also required to take a BSB.

UNREALPwnage wrote:Lore of metal spells wound us on a 4+ instead of 2+ because the horse doesn't count toward our armor save when working out the spell.

Why is that? Is it in an FAQ or something?

UNREALPwnage wrote:Lore of metal spells wound us on a 4+ instead of 2+ because the horse doesn't count toward our armor save when working out the spell.

I'm all for Brets and how awesome they are but I don't think we have that...

That is what the GW guys tell me, in the lore of metal it says it wounds on the targets armor save, heavy armor and shield, 4+. I have never seen someone factor in a mount.

Unreal.

The entire model is counted as the target. Sooooooo yeah not so much.

2+ to wound them no Armor saves.

Yeah when GW guys explain a rule they normally get it wrong...

Honestly, they are the last people i would go to for rules questions.

ShivanAngel wrote:Yeah when GW guys explain a rule they normally get it wrong...

QFT

BRB, The Lore Attribute for Metal, Metalshifting, pg.494, "For example, a model with light armor and shield (for a 5+ save) is wounded on a 5+, whilst a heavily armoured knight, who caries a shield and rides on a barded steed, is wounded on a 2+." (italics added for emphasis)

Respectfully,
DarkAngelHopeful

i would stay away from halbards.

too expensive for what they do.


I would go for a big block of Swords and a big block of Spears. or 2 Big blocks of spears.

Spearmen fight in an extra rank, so that is 15 attacks in a unit of 5x5. 30 in a unit of 10x5. those extra attacks will simply attrition him down by forcing armor saves.


If you take a Horde of spearmen(10x5) supported by 2 units of Millita he will have a tough time of killing them with his knights. it's either charge the millita and leave yourself open to a flank charge by the spearmen OR charge the spears and get 20 millitia in the flanks.

Against the trebuchet's you can take the Ironcurse icon on a captain to give your biggest block a 6+ ward against it while your cannons blast his trebuchet.

Actually assuming maximum frontage, you would get 40 attacks with the 10x5.

First rank
Supporting
Horde Supporting
Spears

How did i miss that


Now imagine if you could still run Pikemen from Dogs of War. 5 ranks fighting

High Elves can run 5 ranks of Spears.

that's because HEs are bloody broken, OP, and i want to stomp them into the dirt, beat em with ma club and then eat the leftovers for breakfast.

Grey Templar wrote:that's because HEs are bloody broken, OP, and i want to stomp them into the dirt, beat em with ma club and then eat the leftovers for breakfast.

No they arent....

I beat high elfs just fine with my skaven....

Course we need the obligatory skaven are also broken rant.

HE aren't all that OP, i happen to think DE are stronger than them but even they aren't OP.

ShivanAngel wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:that's because HEs are bloody broken, OP, and i want to stomp them into the dirt, beat em with ma club and then eat the leftovers for breakfast.

No they arent....

I beat high elfs just fine with my skaven....

Course we need the obligatory skaven are also broken rant.

Skaven as a race arn't broken.

it's the fact that a unit of 50 slaves costs 100 pts thats wrong.

THE SKITTERING FLOOD!!!1!

For HE, Tyclis (or whatever his name is) hurts a lot.

If you go for large units don't use the hoard frontage, his units of knights in lance formation aren't wide enough to really take advantage of it.