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This is my first attempt at a WHFB list as I am just starting the switch from 40k here it goes

Heros
Thane oath stone, Shield, Master Rune of Smiting, Rune of Stone 157pts

Thane Army Standard, Rune of Stone 95pts

Rune Smith, rune of spell breaking 95pts

Rune Smith, Rune of spell Breaking, Master Rune of Spell Binding 145pts

Core
20 Warriors, shields, Musician, Standard Bearer, Veteran 205pts

20 Warriors, shields, Musician, Standard Bearer, Veteran 205pts

16 Thunderers, Musician, Standard Bearer, 239pts

16 Thunderers, Musician, Standard Bearer, 239pts

Special
Grudge Thrower, Rune of Accuracy, Rune of Pennetration, Rune of Burnning, 135pts

Cannon, Rune of Forging, 125pts

15 Hammerers, Shields, musician, Standard Bearer, Rune of Battle 238pts

Rare
Organ Gun 120pts

Army Total 1998pts

My plan is to have the thane with the Stone stationed with the hammerers to withstand about any thing the enemy can throw at them while the warriors move to intercept enemies. The Warmachines will Rain death as will the Thunderers while the runesmith help sutdown enemy magic.

I could really use some C&C please and any changes you would recomend. I'm Trying to build a Starter Army and would like a good list to start on.

Moving to WHFB Lists forum.

You really should throw in a dwarf lord not taking a lord choice is just putting you at a disadvantage most people take lords in a 750 point game now.

I still prefer taking 10 thunderers in a unit so i can shoot at more targets as they havent got shields there going to die fast anyway, i would make 3 units of 10 with shields.

Or a 10 man unit and a 20 man unit with musician/standard with shields ofc.

One thing i gotta say is: take gyrocopters with you. since templates got buffed you automatically hit every model covered by the template. It rapes entire units if used correctly.

The second addition is a flame cannon, for the very same reason, but this one is even harder cause of str 5

These units can make half of ur enemy army flee easily.
I would take out the organ gun, for the simple reason that you do not know how many hits you will have. You cant really rely on it. I also agree with bennyboy about the thunderers

The gyrocopter is good but you still get partials with it on 4+ etc, overall organ guns are very nice you can always re-roll if you score a 2 or 4 depends how brave you are.

I have to disagree with the recommendation for the flame cannon. Looking at it on paper, the range is simply to short to rely on. The end of the template will land somewhere between 10" and 18" away. Your one shot might be devastating, but at 140 points, it is just not worth it.

RZ

I also have to agree that although flame cannons are devastating they are too short to be reliable and i would rather take an organ gun (i seem to be repeating myself a lot today XD) .

I also agree with benny, shields on the thunderers and not taking a lord is a no-no now. I would also drop the oath stone, as i can never see the point of them.

Otherwise i think your list is good

Oathstones are not a bad choice now as even when your flanked you can get support attacks and parry save.

Oathstones are handy when you face armies with lots of troops, but change your thane to a lord.

Give 1 runesmith rune of balance, that extra dispell dice you take from his powerdicepool is always usefull.

Flamecannon is just not worth the points, even with partials gone. Gyrocopter works a lot better even with lower strength, because is has movement.

I think you have to many thunderers, i usually take 10/12 thunderers en 10/12 quarrelers. Crosbows for the little extra range. That should free up some point to change 1 unit of warriors into longbeards.

if you can find the points, banner of grugni to keep them save against shooting for 1 or 2 turns till you can charge them.

I'd rather take an organ gun over a flame cannon. As other state the range on the flame cannon really puts me off.

i dont get it... an organ gun has 24 inch range. a flame cannon has a minimum of 22 inch, but deals a lot more dmg... i dont see why you would swap

sambazorcopter wrote:i dont get it... an organ gun has 24 inch range. a flame cannon has a minimum of 22 inch, but deals a lot more dmg... i dont see why you would swap

Its much more reliable.

Flame cannon has a *maximum* of 18" (8" template, max roll of 12" on the die). So it's even shorter than the 22 vs. 24. Even then a target at max range is only hit if you roll your max distance.

I guess the flame cannon has a particularly devastating "sweet spot", but anything inside or outside that zone is going to be fine.

The other benefit is that the organ gun gets those hits regardless of the formation. So a unit deployed in a wide line, or as a single model, will take the artillery dice worth of hits, rather than the couple or single (respectively) hits from the flame cannon.

Now having said all this, I should note that I haven't actually used the flame cannon in a game yet. These are observations based on how it looks on paper- not good in my opinion. You could give it a whirl and prove folks wrong, but I just don't think it has the range to do much. If it still had the guess range, we might be in business.

RZ

I understand the point of shields on my thunderers i should have thought of that. I don't see the big advantage of thaking a lord though while he is better than the thane he is way more points and i can't take him and my runesmiths while staying under my max of 500 pts.

I've been thinking of droping one unit of thunderers and taking a unit of Rangers w/throwing axes to disrupt enemy warmachines and gun lines my question is are rangers worth it and are they effective.

The other option is drop the thunderers and take more warmachines my self.

Any advice would be nice if you could list the pros and cons of your sugestions im very new to WHFB and in need of some instruction.

Thanks
MXV

Towards your questions:

1: Re: Heroes and lords- remember that you get 25% heroes and 25% lords- separately. So points spent on your lord doesn't come out of hero selections. I think there might be a build that gets along okay without a Dwarf lord, but if you expect to be in combat, Ld 10 is actually pretty significant, especially if coupled with a BSB. In my opinion, that is his real contribution to the army.

2: Re: Rangers- They are great in this edition. Lots of folks are writing lists with 20 plus strong units. I've got a group of 10 (that's all I have painted) and they've been really good for turn 2 charges on enemy war machines. I suspect I'll not be able to do this as often once people start catching on, but they're pretty good. Not sure if you'll get a lot of mileage out of throwing axes, but they're easy to add or drop as you tweak and fine-tune the list.

3: Re: Thunderers vs. war machines- It's mostly a holdover from 7th when core infantry shooters took up more space than they now do (what with firing in two ranks), but I've not been a real big fan. I prefer the destructive power and footprint of a war machine. The thunderers are probably tougher to kill though, so there's a trade off there. It's something I need to experiment with myself.

Hope that gives you a little boost to be on your way. I've been trying to battle reports which you can find on this site detailing exploits with my Dwarven combat army. And as I always say- you can read and discuss all you like, but there's simply no substitute for actually playing!

RZ

Thanks for the advice after reading here and other dwarf lists Im ready for attempt no. 2

Lord
Dwarf Lord, GW, Shield Bearers, M.Rune of Smiting, R of Resistance, R of Preservation, R of Stone, 291pts

Heros
Thane, Battle Standard, M.Rune of Gromil, R of Resistance, 140pts

Runesmith, M.rune of Spellbinding, R of Spell Breaking 145pts

Runesmith, M.Rune of Balance, R of Spell Breaking 145pts

Core
25 Warriors, Shields, GW, Full Command 300pts

25 Long Beards, Shields, Full Command, R of Battle, R of Ansestors 360pts

Special
Grudge Thrower, R of Accuracy, R of Penetration, R. of Burning, Engineer w/dwarf Handgun 155pts

Cannon, R of Forging, Engineer w/dwarf Handgun 145pts

20 Hammerers, Shields, Full Command, Rune of Battle 315pts

Army Total 1996pts

I don't think my thunderers or quarelers will be that effective with how the shooting rules work for cover. if I deploy my Warriors and Long Beards in 5X5 formation the may stay steadfast of have enough to claim extra for battle Results. The Lord will go with the long Beards to give them more hitting power and the thane with the battle standard will go with the warrior block. The hammerers should be able to survive on their own and make a good anvil or hammer depending on the oponents army. With my runesmiths I shouldn't really have to worry about my oponents magic phase and with out it my Dwarves should survive and destroy the oponents Infantry.

If you have sugestions I would be glad to hear them Im new to WHFB and need a solid army to build thanks

I think you might be overdoing the magic defense with the two runesmiths and full magic kit. If you wanted to get some points to bulk out a unit, I'd look at dropping the handguns on the engineers, and the shields on hammerers and warriors. That's 55 points, which can get another rank onto your warrior unit, which would be pretty nice.

Also note- if you're putting runes on a great weapon, it becomes a hand weapon unless you also put the MR of Kragg the Grim on it...

RZ

bennyboy gave me a good set-up for my dwarf lord about a week ago.

GW
shield bearers
M.R. of spite
R. of preservation
R. of stone
R. of resistance
M.R. of kragg the grim
rune of fire

for 285 points. If killing blow and poison attacks dont bother you. trade out the rune of preservation for a rune of fury for 10 points more witch should still be in the 125point limit.

I also run 2 units of 16 thunderers with shields and FC. I use to run units of 10 but found once they started to take hits from bows and such from longer range they dont live to long. Also 16 stand & shoot is alot better then 10 imho

I would drop the engineer on the cannon and drop the handgun from the grudgethrower, and like RZ said maybe loose a master rune of spellbinding as i think you have enough magic defence for a 2k point game.

That would free up enough points for a few more warriors and maybe a rune of challenge to make sure you get your hammerers in there.

Ok n00b mistakes so I thought that you could chose wether to use a great weapon or hand weapon in combat and I now know that that in't the case so my new question is would you recomend the Hammers as my anvil unit or should I take Ironbreakers for the better saves.

I will Drop the shields on the GW warriors and take more of them.

I also will change my lords rune set up alittle bit

Thanks every one of the advice

I will post the updated list soon

I don't see the reason for rune of burning on your grudgethrower. Unless you play against wood elves or tomb kings often?
The revisions seem solid, let us know how your list is doing on the table, maybe a small battle report, that would also help us give you further advice with your tactics in mind.

jochemvh wrote:I don't see the reason for rune of burning on your grudgethrower. Unless you play against wood elves or tomb kings often?

For shutting down regeneration, my man! Hydrdas, hell-pits, graveguard with the banner we all know and love, earthblood, the list goes on...