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In my search for finding out all I can about the Tyranid codex, my gaze turns to the Tyranid Warrior.

At about the cost of Terminators (CSM or C:SM roughly, depending on point cost), you get a three wound model with Space Marine stat profiles but without tank hunting weaponry. You can take up to 9 in a brood, and even then the cost of the unit can come under 400 points if you don't invest too heavily.

What do people think about Tyranid Warriors?

9 guys with 3 wounds with lash whips, boneswords, scything talons, and toxin sacs? What's not to love? Assuming they get the charge that's 4 attacks apiece so 36 attacks. Statistically 25 and 1/3 hit, and to wound on t4 models 19 wound, or on t5+ that's 12 wounds. So for under 500 points you are statistically doing 12-19 power weapon wounds while your opponent strikes at init 1 (don't feel like doing the math right now for if they get charged, but it's still not too shabby). Kinda gotta build a list around em imo, but when you do it can be nasty if played right.

It wont compete in a competitive meta game, so most tournaments wont see this unit in action. The best use of warriors is support fire while hunkering down on an objective. And even then they are outshined by many others.

yermom wrote:It wont compete in a competitive meta game, so most tournaments wont see this unit in action. The best use of warriors is support fire while hunkering down on an objective. And even then they are outshined by many others.

So what are nid players stuck with? Genestealers?

Don't forget that they are also a synapse unit, which frees up your Hive Tyrants and Zoanthropes to destroy the enemy, while the Warriors frustrate the hell out of typical tournament players, who tend to stomp and shake their fists if their DPS starts to dip.

"under 500 points" is hardly affordable. There are way better uses for that many points.

When the new Tyranid codex came out, I read it very eagerly (a mate plays tyranids as his main army) and I thought warriors looked great. I worked out that they're tougher than terminators against small arms, and about as tough as assault terminators against low-ap weapons like plasma. (obviously they're a bit worse if not in cover and targetted by Ap4 like HBs and such). Looks great right?

The objection I think people have to them, is that anything S8 or higher can inflict massive damage. This includes some very common things, like missile launchers, IG ordnance, hidden powerfists, etc. All this stuff will kill an approximately 40 pt warrior on a 2+ if it hits. So really it comes down to whether your opponent has lots of such weapons, and/or if you can keep the squad safe from them.

One unit, as additional synapse and hard objective holding, seems like a sound idea. But they're too expensive to take en masse, with those vulnerabilities. (it would be interesting to see an army wholly of warriors, hive guard, and monstrous creatures though, being almost immune to small arms fire!)

Warriors also have an offensive problem - poor anti-tank. I think part of why many competitive nid players take tervigons and gaunts as troops is that they don't break the bank. Points need to be spent on elites and monstrous creatures, which can bust vehicles.

*facepalm*

I forgot about tervigons and gaunts... hehe.

Too used to all genestealers as troops. Which is IMO boring.... kind of like BA razor spam. And this is from a BA player...

And as for that list you're thinking of...
1.5k
HQ:
Tyranid Prime: Pair of boneswords; talons; Glands; Regen (10 pts; why the hell not)
110pts (that was cheaper then I expected! )

Elites: 9x Hive Guard
450pts

Troops:
3x Warriors: Boneswords; strangler
130

3x Warriors: Boneswords; strangler
130

3x Warriors: Boneswords; strangler
130

3x Warriors: Boneswords; strangler
130

3x Warriors: Boneswords; strangler
130

HS:
Trygon Prime: Regen; Glands
275

TOTAL: 1485

I'm not a nid player so idk how this would work!

Hive guard do what hive guard do and attack vehicles.

A prime joins a unit (though idk about all these small units, it makes alpha warrior less effective...)

And trygons do what trygons do. Scare your opponent.

What you have there is 15 targets for Crack missiles....
If one was forced to run a warrior build like that, the elites must have some Venomthropes in them otherwise *poof*...
One is also going to be walking across the board...
And has a single random MC...
And can only glance Av14... at 24"...

Seriously man what do the list you write for your BA look like?

Ok, first, stop with the personal attacks.

Second, I was bored, and I realize that krak missiles love warriors, but warriors are not feeling it.

And my BA list:

HQ:
Termie Epistolary: SS; Sanguine Sword; Unleash Rage
Termie Reclursiarch

Elites:
Assault Termies: 3x LC; 2x TH/SS; LRC with MM and EA (I think? Don't have it on me)
Sang Priest

Troops:
Tac Squad: meltagun; PC; SB; PF; Rhino
Tac Squad: meltagun: PC; PW;PP; Rhino
DC: 1x TH; 1x PF; 1x PW; 1x infernus/CCW; 3x BP/CCW; Godhammer LR

HS:
Devs: 4x ML

Libby; termies; and priest go in the LRC. DC and reclusiarch go in the other land raider. And everyone else does their thing. Tac squads hold objectives. Devs shoot at something...

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:Ok, first, stop with the personal attacks.

Second, I was bored, and I realize that krak missiles love warriors, but warriors are not feeling it.

And my BA list:

HQ:
Termie Epistolary: SS; Sanguine Sword; Unleash Rage
Termie Reclursiarch

Elites:
Assault Termies: 3x LC; 2x TH/SS; LRC with MM and EA (I think? Don't have it on me)
Sang Priest

Troops:
Tac Squad: meltagun; PC; SB; PF; Rhino
Tac Squad: meltagun: PC; PW;PP; Rhino
DC: 1x TH; 1x PF; 1x PW; 1x infernus/CCW; 3x BP/CCW; Godhammer LR

HS:
Devs: 4x ML

Libby; termies; and priest go in the LRC. DC and reclusiarch go in the other land raider. And everyone else does their thing. Tac squads hold objectives. Devs shoot at something...

That was not a personal attack mate, that was an objective observation of the list you presented I then asked what your BA lists look like, which you kindly provided.

As you well know your BA list has the tools to deal with everything - more or less. Two Tacs to ensure you can hold one end game objective, and basically two wings in landraiders with AT support.

The list you provided for nids lacked these things.

Tyranid Prime: Pair of boneswords; talons; Glands; Regen (10 pts; why the hell not)
110pts (that was cheaper then I expected! )

Elites:
Venomthrope x2 110
Venomthrope x2 110
Hive guard - 50

Troops:
Termagants x10 - 50

Tervigon /w AG TS - 180

5x Warriors: Boneswords; strangler
210

5x Warriors: Boneswords; strangler
210

4x Warriors: Boneswords; strangler
210

HS:
Tyrannofex /w Rupture cannon
265
TOTAL: 1500 on the dot I think, can't steal someoen codex atm.

It's basically the same list that you posted, but the warriors have saves agains ID the trrops selection has survivability, and could psplit for 4 troops with no points penalty or drop the 'gants move Tervigon up and spread out more. Rupture cannon adds the spice - assault 2 (better than TL :p ) str ten 48"


All i was saying man was that bored or not that list had some gaping bloody holes (mine has more than a couple for that matter) that in my honest opinion show that you never thought about "What if I had to play this?"

You might think about using a couple of big units of warriors in conjunction with tervigons with the catalyst power. It won't help them against str 8, but they'll be better able to hold up to autocannons, heavy bolters, heavy flamers, etc.

An all genestealer army is actually kind of weak now.

I don't think venomthropes are that great a buy - shouldn't be too hard to find cover for 15-20 warriors. I do think the tyrannofex fills a gap in the list though. It's better at killing tanks and is more resilient than other MCs - you don't need an elite infantry muncher if you've got warriors w/boneswords. How's this for a list:

Tyranid Prime: paired boneswords, talons, toxin sacs: 100

9 Hive guard: 450

2x5 Warriors with deathspitters, talons: 350

5 warriors with bonesword/lashwhips, talons: 225

Tyrannofex w/rupture cannon: 265

That's 1390 points. Maybe take out 3 hiveguard and buy a second tyrranofex, or just take out 1 (or none) and get another unit of warriors. The plan is to move the warriors up in cover, with the shooty squads covering the elite assault unit (who are joined by the prime) if necessary.

Not a tyranid player, but it seems to me the point of such a list (which I admit isn't the hardest thing around) would be to get enough shooting to wreck vehicles, and let the warriors munch the contents.

ChrisCP wrote:

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:Ok, first, stop with the personal attacks.

Second, I was bored, and I realize that krak missiles love warriors, but warriors are not feeling it.

And my BA list:

HQ:
Termie Epistolary: SS; Sanguine Sword; Unleash Rage
Termie Reclursiarch

Elites:
Assault Termies: 3x LC; 2x TH/SS; LRC with MM and EA (I think? Don't have it on me)
Sang Priest

Troops:
Tac Squad: meltagun; PC; SB; PF; Rhino
Tac Squad: meltagun: PC; PW;PP; Rhino
DC: 1x TH; 1x PF; 1x PW; 1x infernus/CCW; 3x BP/CCW; Godhammer LR

HS:
Devs: 4x ML

Libby; termies; and priest go in the LRC. DC and reclusiarch go in the other land raider. And everyone else does their thing. Tac squads hold objectives. Devs shoot at something...

That was not a personal attack mate, that was an objective observation of the list you presented I then asked what your BA lists look like, which you kindly provided.

As you well know your BA list has the tools to deal with everything - more or less. Two Tacs to ensure you can hold one end game objective, and basically two wings in landraiders with AT support.

The list you provided for nids lacked these things.

Tyranid Prime: Pair of boneswords; talons; Glands; Regen (10 pts; why the hell not)
110pts (that was cheaper then I expected! )

Elites:
Venomthrope x2 110
Venomthrope x2 110
Hive guard - 50

Troops:
Termagants x10 - 50

Tervigon /w AG TS - 180

5x Warriors: Boneswords; strangler
210

5x Warriors: Boneswords; strangler
210

4x Warriors: Boneswords; strangler
210

HS:
Tyrannofex /w Rupture cannon
265
TOTAL: 1500 on the dot I think, can't steal someoen codex atm.

It's basically the same list that you posted, but the warriors have saves agains ID the trrops selection has survivability, and could psplit for 4 troops with no points penalty or drop the 'gants move Tervigon up and spread out more. Rupture cannon adds the spice - assault 2 (better than TL :p ) str ten 48"


All i was saying man was that bored or not that list had some gaping bloody holes (mine has more than a couple for that matter) that in my honest opinion show that you never thought about "What if I had to play this?"

I was thinking about how would I play this... which is kind of why I brought the trygon, if you're gonna take only one MC, why not the scariest one? But I see your point.

Warriors are a leman russ's best friend.

Minus 1 on vehicle damage table for venom cannons, and to boot they have a 4+, t4 and 3 wounds!

I love versing warriors really, Marbo loves them, Autocannons love them, heavy flamers like them too. They need a points-up and a 3+. MANTICORES ADORE THEM.

Well... they certainly have cool models so that makes them worth it to me!

I'll take the short answer as "no, warriors are only competitive in the right build, and the build is not really that competitive at all."

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:

I was thinking about how would I play this... which is kind of why I brought the trygon, if you're gonna take only one MC, why not the scariest one? But I see your point.

And sorry for irking you

@Warone: Yeah pretty much. Warriors as a unit can be gold, plug holes and fill synapes gap that might suddenly appear, and have 36" pinning (fearless is running rampant atm thou), warriors as an army... don't unpack models

It's alright.

It's a shame that warriors are not better, they have some of the better looking models.

It really raises some further questions about playtesting, doesn't it? I think everyone here agrees that warriors look really tough on paper, they just fold when up against S8+ weapons. Why on earth didn't the codex writers figure that out?

Well, I think they thought that people would screen them with gaunts or deploy in cover.

Silly writers, thinking we actually know strategy

I run one squad of warriors 5-7 in number currently in my 1750 or higher lists. RC, AG,TS and Devoures with one strangler. This is the unit my Hive Tyrant has outflank, the other is genestealers. The versitility of the warriors to either take objectives, support fire, synapse I think is the reason I keep them.

I've ran Alpha lists and been disappointed. Hiddenfists are not too bad against MEQ due to the fact that shooting and assualt wipes them before the fist can play. Large Ork squads are a different story. More than 15 I tend to avoid, assulting. Shooting and the BS can pin the orks once their numbers get low, witch should make the next turn to clear them the better.

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:Well, I think they thought that people would screen them with gaunts or deploy in cover.

Silly writers, thinking we actually know strategy

Thanks man . . . you've really opened my eyes there. Any other genius advice which will lift me up from the gutter of ignorance?

What I mean is, even with a cover save, a single S8 hit can take off a 3W, 35-45 pt warrior. Terminators cost a similar amount, and are similarly durable, except where instant death weapons come into play. Then, warriors become much much worse. Warriors are an essentially balanced unit with one huge weak spot. I suppose it's their bad luck that IG, with their huge number of ordnance templates, are the most popular army right now.

Ya, I realize that, from what I can see, there is no real way to cover that blind spot that isn't expensive or doesn't involve just straight up killing the enemy first. Gaunts should act like gaunts and just throw themselves into the path of the enemy fire.

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:Ya, I realize that, from what I can see, there is no real way to cover that blind spot that isn't expensive or doesn't involve just straight up killing the enemy first. Gaunts should act like gaunts and just throw themselves into the path of the enemy fire.

I have generally found that saturating the field with things that my opponent wants to target with s8+ weaponry actually goes a long way to help them survive.
"Do I shoot the guys over there with a cover save, or the Tyrannofex/Trygon/Swarmlord/etc. running at me that has neither cover nor invuln save"

Warriors with bs/lw and deathspitter work rather well for me most of the time--other biomorphs vary a bit.

I think I covered that with expensive. Though you were probably going to take those things anyway