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Ollinus Pious

Why was he retconn'd?

The idea of a Guardsman putting himself between Horus and the Emperor is far cooler than a Custodes...

Was it because it was pretty hard to explain what on earth a Guardsman was doing on Horus' flagship?

That doesn't seem as dramatic. What is the Guardsman thinking? "Oh that guy just killed his favorite brother" (See Fallen Gods HH book) "But I think I can still talk some sense into him! No worries Emperor old buddy, I can take him" It just doesn't fit.

As much as I generally prefer the older background material, "Regular Joes" teleporting up to Horus' flagship witht he Emperor on the spur of the moment, instead of Space Marines and Custodes?

No!

I still think the best way to tell the Battle of the Emperor's Palace story in the HH books is from Ollinus Pious's POV.

Him being a "regular Joe" is exactly WHY it's more interesting. Superhumans doing super things isn't as cool as regular humans doing super things.

unless the superhumans do super-duper things!

Melissia wrote:Him being a "regular Joe" is exactly WHY it's more interesting. Superhumans doing super things isn't as cool as regular humans doing super things.

Wrong.

He is so glaringly out of place on the Vengeful Spirit that it borders on the insane.

So no, this is one change that is for the good.

Alpharius wrote:He is so glaringly out of place on the Vengeful Spirit that it borders on the insane.

Many people confuse bravery with insanity. You may hold your belief that it is insane, but I believe it is more dauntless bravery and faith, quite admirable qualities.

The point is that it was blindingly obvious that intervening would make him face annihilation... and yet he did it anyway, hence why he's a saint.

He was a man of awesome faith, perhaps moreso than even the Astartes themselves.

If they found some reason for him to have been up there, I'd be 100% in favour of it being un-retconned :p

and he literally just could have been standing in the wrong spot at the wrong time.

"What's this shiny floor?" ZZzzap "Oh crap, where am I now."

Oh wow, we've found a way to make the Horus Heresy into a Forrest Gump-esque light comedy...

Melissia wrote:

Alpharius wrote:He is so glaringly out of place on the Vengeful Spirit that it borders on the insane.

Many people confuse bravery with insanity. You may hold your belief that it is insane, but I believe it is more dauntless bravery and faith, quite admirable qualities.

Please do not presume to know what I do and do not think and/or believe.

And guys, he doesn't officially exist anymore.

The Horus Heresy, in many ways, ended the "reign of the super-men" and made sure that Space Marines would ever again threaten the galaxy, at least not on the scale that they did!

The final battle really 'has' to be the Emperor and his gene-sons against each other.

OP had no place in such a conflict, so he's gone!

Have to agree with Melissia and Commisar Henners on this one.
The concept of a normal human such as Ollanius standing up to Chaos and evil incarnate, representing the unswerving bravery and sacrifice that a simple human is capable of is simply too damn significant to retcon. He is proof that yes, one damn guardsman CAN make a difference. Ollanius is a manifesation of hope and defiance to a galaxy populated with demons, monstrous xenos and genetically engineered superhumans. He is the Emperors Middle Finger.
Ollanius: "Hey Horus, F*ck you, buddy"

Fantastic.

How about we try to answer the OP's question too though?

Why, then, is he gone?

Beats me, I think its criminal that he's gone. My best guess is that Gee Dub felt as if he didnt fit for whatever reason.
However, there could be any number of reasons that he was on Horu's ship. Lot worse fluff out there then a guardsman getting on that ship.

I wish I'd read the novels so that I could come up with a reason...

Secreted there by a benevolent warp entity?

Alpharius wrote:Please do not presume to know what I do and do not think and/or believe.

I am only responding to what you, youself, said.

Alpharius wrote:He is so glaringly out of place on the Vengeful Spirit that it borders on the insane.

I think Alpharius has a point considering that the nature of the Vengeful Spirit being so utterly corrupted that even Marines were driven instantly insane begs the question of how an ordinary Imperial soldier actually got as far as Horus without being driven mad or killed by any one the many horrors in the first few seconds. It seems incongruous. Certainly though Ollanius is a great character and he should be in the background somewhere.

Deus Vult's description puts me in mind of Grade A Imperial propaganda and when faced with insurmountable forces that make any Guardsman quake in his boots you can bet some gung-ho officer or Commissar will be there chastising his men by asking 'What would Ollanius Pius say?' We shall ignore the nigh impossibility of his presence aboard the Vengeful Spirit or even as KamikazeCanuck said that he was just some idiot that got zapped without even realising what had happened.

Melissia wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Please do not presume to know what I do and do not think and/or believe.

I am only responding to what you, youself, said.

Alpharius wrote:He is so glaringly out of place on the Vengeful Spirit that it borders on the insane.

Melissia wrote:

Alpharius wrote:He is so glaringly out of place on the Vengeful Spirit that it borders on the insane.

Many people confuse bravery with insanity. You may hold your belief that it is insane, but I believe it is more dauntless bravery and faith, quite admirable qualities.

Selective editing... FTL?

Can someone cite the original source for Mr. Pious?

It might help us figure out why he's gone.

Gogsnik wrote:I think Alpharius has a point considering that the nature of the Vengeful Spirit being so utterly corrupted that even Marines were driven instantly insane begs the question of how an ordinary Imperial soldier actually got as far as Horus without being driven mad or killed by any one the many horrors in the first few seconds.

Isn't that the point of a miracle? As for his staying sane, isn't that more a testament to his strength of will, bravery, and faith, than unbelievable?

Humans do amazing things under duress.

Henners91 wrote:If they found some reason for him to have been up there, I'd be 100% in favour of it being un-retconned :p

How's this for a reason, he never was there, it was a fabrication by the Imperium in order to inspire guardsmen.

And maybe Horus isn't real, he's just a fabrication made in order to inspire Marines to not be traitorous bastards. I'm not sure it works

The HH was 10,000 freakin years ago. The imperium could be wrong on nearly everything they think they know about that time.

probably because it is nearly impossible for someone like OP to be able to put chinks on Horus's Armor
and what the hell a normal person is doing there when the battle is between spess mahreens against spess mahreens?

Yes, nearly impossible. And yet, that is what a miracle is supposed to be, yes?

A lucky blow can fell anyone.

I would have thought a regular guardsmen would probably have been turned into a gibbering madman the instant he even saw the inside of Horus' flagship...what with the walls coming alive and eating marines and all...

I dunno, I'm kinda torn on this. I get the POV of an ordinary man being extraordinarily brave and all that. And I think its really cool.

But when the Emperor confronts Horus over the dead body of Sanguinius, basically its the climax of the HH, the final showdown between a father and the son that betrayed him. Its about how the father's boundless ambition for humanity was eclipsed by the son's ambition for himself, and turned the galaxy to ash in the process. etc etc

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it'd be like Luke confronting Darth on the second Death Star, and then the bravest Ewok in Endor jabs Darth from behind with a spear before getting decapitated by a lightsaber. Yeah its hella brave, but detracts from the scene in ways I can't fully express =p

rabidaskal wrote:
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it'd be like Luke confronting Darth on the second Death Star, and then Jar-Jar jabs Darth from behind with a spear before getting decapitated by a lightsaber. Yeah its hella brave, but detracts from the scene in ways I can't fully express =p

Fix'd...but it gets the point across well enough.

Melissia wrote:Yes, nearly impossible. And yet, that is what a miracle is supposed to be, yes?

A lucky blow can fell anyone.

Yeah but venturing to say some random dude can lay a finger on the guy who sent the entire galaxy into a state of war and released the most powerful otherworldly force in the galaxy on the Imperium is stretching it...alot.

I wanna see Abnett and/or Mcneill do the seige of terra in HH and for a couple of chapters cut between the marines and the guard. After the marines go up to the ship the gaurd say something like: "yea the marines are taking the fight to the traitors flagship" "hell yea lets go win this" then 1,000s of guard go teleport up there after the marines, gak hits the fan and this 1 guardsman stumbles upon Horus and the Emperor (still see the fight and a lot of stuff from their POV just cut to OP running around tho). The emperor is wounded, he sees this and without a second thought he jumps between them and dies horribly *without harming Horus in any way*

Meh, I'd be happy if they kept it as a fabrication... I'd love to make an Ollanius Pius banner for a guard army He's meant to be Saint o' the Guard 'n' all.