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Hey so I just started playing 40k and I played someone who has been playing for years and got owned today. I was wondering if anyone had any tips to beat his chaos space marine army? It consisted of
6 units of noise maker troops,
2 defilers,
2 chaos dreads
2 demon princes.
I play blood angels and have a more combat oriented army with
2 assault squads,
sanguinary guard,
furioso dread with blood talons and drop pod with beacon,
baal pred,
dev squad,
tact squad. I could possibly add vanguard vets, or a whirlwind as I already have those models, but can buy different units. I have Mephiston, Gabriel Seth, and Dante as HQ options.
Thanks a lot.

OffT: I believe you mean Noise MARINES?
More OffT: Congrats on 1st post

Back OnT: I see your problem. 2Deffys, 2Dreads and 2Princes. Plus Noise Marines. VS Assault Force.

Could you explain a bit more? What did his Princes have? What were his Defilers and Dreadnoughts armed with?

Yea be a bit more specific explain how the battle went or how he pawned you,and he means noise marines by the Emperors Children.

Attack bikes with multi meltas work nice on armor, also the Stormraven kills armor pretty well.

Landspeeders arent bad, but you need alot of them or other armor out there or they get blown to shreds

lascannons for the dreads

or you could take Melta bombs on your Assault sergeants and/or powerfists (put 10 of them in a land raider and remove the jump packs for a 35 point discount on the land raider)

and the drop pod is ok, but you can not assault from it, i find a dread in a drop pod usually gets killed just after he lands.

The main reason I lost was he hit me with a lot of template weapons and as soon as my squads deep struck they were shot at by like 3 squads of noise marines. He kept all of his squads close together. He also used lash of submission to prevent my devs from doing anything. Luckily Mephiston killed one of the demon princes, both defilers, and a dread. But other than him no one really lasted past turn 3. :(

I see, double lashing with templates, tough list to beat.


Best thing to do about it would be to get more mech into the battle (lash can't touch them) and try to kill the princes at all cost. since they can't hide within squads you should be able to put enough bullet holes into him.

defilers may look intimidating and powerful (they are!) but they still only have 12 armor so a good lascannon (preferable more then one at a time) can demolish them easy.

Noisemarines are trouble. they get alot of shots and they tote some of the most powerful weapons available to chaos (the evil str5 ap 3 doom siren, or uber blastmaster) though they are still marines. and assaulting them isnt very smart since they are I5 and have pistols/cc weapons to boot!)

you can either out shoot him (long range templates/phsycic abilities work wonders) and getting rid of those MC/defiler/dread asap.

Thanks for the advise, I guess I will try getting some more mech in my list, because his list was all about chopping down my troops. Any ideas of what I should add? Another Baal pred? a vindicator? a land raider? Thanks again for the help.

yoshipikmin4 wrote:Hey so I just started playing 40k and I played someone who has been playing for years

There's your first problem...it's really hard to beat some of the more veteran players out there, even when you're playing a good list and they're not if it's your first time...

yoshipikmin4 wrote:6 units of noise maker troops,

I hate these things against my BA, their templates are just too damn good...However you can easily mod your list with very few changes to cap them: namely more templates of your own...so many noise marines are expensive, so you may outnumber him. Regardless, a few large blasts, like from a vindi, work wonders

yoshipikmin4 wrote:2 defilers,
2 chaos dreads
2 demon princes.

This is a scary list, lots of big tin cans and MCs, again tho, this is where that vindi comes in handy. Similarly, your ball pread should have assault cannons, that will help it take on both groups there (MCs and vehicles)

yoshipikmin4 wrote:2 assault squads,
sanguinary guard,

a good BA setup normally, but here is where you need another list change. The sanguinary guard need to be far more tooled up, as do the assault squads, to really knock out those walkers. AV12 is a touch nut to crack in assault, even with a fist you're glancing on 4s, so you wanna really amp up the heavy hitting firepower as much as you can. death masks are a must, they'll help you get through that first round more easily against all those Close combat hits that ignore our beloved 2+ saves. a banner is expensive, and it's (In my opinion) a matter of preference whether you want the 30 points for what is essentially 5 extra attacks (I personally think its far too expensive)
The assault squads, I think at least against such a heavy hitting force, should be split up into five man squads with razorbacks (ebay, very cheap) with assault cannons. that rending will help you punch through av12, put the hurt on MCs, and still be able to nail those noise marines. The nice thing about that is that it means you're essentially paying the points only for a razorback, and you get a free assault cannon, as assault squads get discounts (as someone already said) on their transports

yoshipikmin4 wrote:furioso dread with blood talons and drop pod with beacon

Usually a nice idea to stick the dread in a pod, it helps him keep up, however when he's furioso, not so much. His big strength is assault, and since he can't do that when he lands he has to weather being a huge fluffy target for all this guys' firepower, unless you can somehow position the pod to block LOS from all his enemy vehicles. With how he's tooled up to be an infantry killer, you really wanna make sure he survives to do that, and the pod sadly will not help. The furioso is an awesome model but if you're up for converting a librarian dread might be better, as he'll be shootier, and can give himself a cover save from that round of incoming fire

yoshipikmin4 wrote:baal pred,

YES! the most awesome pred ever! good choice, provided it has assault cannons. as to sponsons...well I dunno. I usually run flamers if i can spare the points, but I move it so much to prevent side shots usually I don't buy any

yoshipikmin4 wrote:dev squad,

this right here is your big problem. Not because their overcosted or any of the usual things people say but rather because they're not synergized with your other units. You've got a bum rush army, by taking devs you're leaving a unit behind and unprotected. Plus the lash problem you noted. IMHO a vindi is better for it's blast (same quantity, but it is designed to keep up with your units and can offer a moving shield from those annoying templates)

yoshipikmin4 wrote:tact squad.

Great for sitting on objectives (I run two when I can) but you'll probably want to tool them up with either a flamer or a plasma gun, and a sarge with a combi flamer or plasma gun and a fist (since he'll never get +1 attack with a fist you're not missing out by giving him the combi gun) this will give them the good hit to nail those pesky 3+ save marines or the templates to do so (if that's more your style) and yet still be able to at least knock a dread a round If you really wanna sit them tho, you risk the same thing as your dev squad (the lash) but if you can manage it instead give them a plasma cannon and watch all the templatey goodness rip those tightly packed marines to pieces

yoshipikmin4 wrote: I could possibly add vanguard vets, or a whirlwind as I already have those models, but can buy different units. I have Mephiston, Gabriel Seth, and Dante as HQ options.

Dont do vanguard vets without a stormraven, then they can heroic intervention AND descent of angels! provided thats the FAQ were using...the whirlwind is also always a good choice but risks the same issue as your devs, namely that it gets left behind and is easy pickings for a deep strike, outflank, or essentially anyone who decides to look at it since it only has rhino quality armor. just for the whole rush thing you have going I feel a razorback is better (easy conversion too...swap turrets )
all your HQs are good powerhouse units, but they're also quite expensive. dante is lacking a little in this army...as you've listed no ICs that I can see (since DPs are MCs not ICs right?) and he can't help the sanuinary guard deepstrike...mephiston is jawsome on his own (cause as you noticed he'll just munch stuff up) and he can keep up with your units, but you pay the premium in points...seth probably has the most DIRECT synergy, as you can stick him in one of the razorbacks with your assault squad and have him help them munch some noise marines, and when combined with a fist that gives you 8 strength 8 attacks on the charge, 5 of which are rending! take that mr Monstrous creature!
just remember that you can't assault if the razorback has moved and you should be good...
Most of the things I listed are far more expensive, but with some list shuffling you should be able to handle it to some degree...I don't know how big your dev squad is but if you decide to drop it that should be a huge point loss right there. All in all add or subtract what you see fit this is just my two cents...and the kind of army I play

Feel good - at least you got slapped around by a list that's universally considered pretty vicious. Interesting choice of using Noise Marines and Defilers instead of Obliterators, but it clearly worked for him.

Best way to handle it is to mechanize and rush forward. Deep-striking plays right into the hands of a list like this, since you cluster up nicely for the blast weapons - he doesn't even need to lash you into a ball!

yoshipikmin4 wrote:Hey so I just started playing 40k and I played someone who has been playing for years and got owned today.

If you just started playing and you got owned by someone who has been playing for years, that should be no suprise. It would be akin to a white belt sparring a black belt and winning -- sure it can happen but not often. There is no shame is losing to someone who has tons of experience, just as there is no shame in losing due to crappy dice rolls.

Your on the right step. Asking how to get better is something that the vast majority of players don't do. Either they have been playing so long they don't think they need to work to improve, or they just don't care to improve and are happy with where they are at.

I have been playing for 18 years off and on, and I still ask people after every game "What did I do right", "What could I have done better", "If you could change one thing about my army, what would it be", and "What did you find the difficult thing of my army to fight?" You should ask these questions as well.

Research some of the many 40k articles that are out there. Watch some youtube videos of strategy and tactics (like in chess, they are different) and you will see your game improve.

A Laz Land Raider should give him fits - only way he'll be able to deal with it would be CC with his monsters but you should be dusting off an AV12 a turn w/o a problem with it. Those Defilers are a beast to find cover for and the Dreads should be acting crazy enough for you to get a pot shot on them from time to time.

Lash can be a bit of a pain to play around, and it's merciless if you get a marine squad bunched up and then smacked with a Defiler blast. Breaking LOS to bait things out of position has worked against my Chaos list quite a few times, although as I play more I'm becoming a bit more canny on how to work around that.

Deepstrike usually does the trick too, although you pretty much NEED to nail the Defiler on the opening shot or you're going to take a lot of pain (unless it's something like termis).

Plasma guns/cannons are going to see a lot of juicy targets. Not sure what BA can bring to the table in that regards (codex is on the coffee table, just need to sit down and peruse it), but that would probably be my weapon loadout of choice.

Are the Noise Marines rhino'd up? If not, he's got an incredibly immobile force - you should be able to control the flow of the board. Prince would be the only things he could use to reinforce a bad combat zone.

6 noise marine units seems expensive, is he running them minimum size for Master Blasters or something? Never really thought about going that route - sounds a bit brutal.

wow thanks for all the help. this is a great forum and you are all so helpful. I will try taking some razorbacks with my assault marines and drop my dev squads. Thanks a lot.

okay sorry I couldnt return to your topic, I was bussy at school. I play alot against space marines, and the main mistake what they do is that they equip the units with badass weapons that are anti-armour but they never get to the range. What you need is give rhinos to each of your squad as a dedicated transport and mov as fast as you can to combat or range and destroy him. When the SM player did that on me I destroyed most of his rhinos but his marines got out and they got to me in then end before I could gun them down. Also in order to break your enamie concentration from attacking your rhinos deep strike from the back of his army, the guy will panik and be confused what to do.