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Hello dakka! hope you are all well. i was wondering if some of you could help me in a little rules question we came across in our groups weekly gaming session last night.

We had a 500pts battle of Orks Vs Daemons.

The issue arose with the Changeling trying to use his Glamour of Tzeench against an Ork Mob.

Now the ork Mob was 12 models in size at the start of the game. So hear is two examples of the situation we find ourtselfs in, an answer to both would be nice!

Situation 1.

The Changeling attempts to use his Glamour of Tzeench against the 12 strong Ork Mob. Now with Mob rule, the orks have a Ld of 12 and thus cannot fail such an attack (you cannot roll 13 on 2D6) is this correct?

Situation 2

The Changeling attempts to use his Glamour of Tzeench against the now 9 strong Ork Mob (some died in some shooting action). Now with Mob rule, the orks have a Ld of ? ah ha! This is the question does mob rule relate to the size of the squad at the beginning of the game, or phase? I am asuming they could use the mob rule to have a Ld 9 (not 12) and they are no longer fearless as they have dropped below 11.

Any advice would be nice! Cheers

deejaybainbridge wrote:The Changeling attempts to use his Glamour of Tzeench against the 12 strong Ork Mob. Now with Mob rule, the orks have a Ld of 12 and thus cannot fail such an attack (you cannot roll 13 on 2D6) is this correct?

Ld and all other non AV Characteristics are capped at 10. Page 6, BRB.

deejaybainbridge wrote:The Changeling attempts to use his Glamour of Tzeench against the now 9 strong Ork Mob (some died in some shooting action). Now with Mob rule, the orks have a Ld of ? ah ha! This is the question does mob rule relate to the size of the squad at the beginning of the game, or phase? I am asuming they could use the mob rule to have a Ld 9 (not 12) and they are no longer fearless as they have dropped below 11.

Mob Rule allows you to replaces the LD with whatever the unit strength is. So yes, it would be 9.

Also, no stat can EVER go above 10, apart from atttacks (and then only temporarily) - so in example 1 they are Ld10. or 7, as you can still use your basic leadership.

Mob rule clearly states your CURRENT mob size may be used.

Great mate cheers that clears that up.

And to just double clarify, Mob rule is OPTIONAL. You can always choose to use your normal Ld if you so wish.

Though it is handy sometimes when you REALLY need for that one remaining ork to fail the Ld test.

Gwar! wrote:And to just double clarify, Mob rule is OPTIONAL. You can always choose to use your normal Ld if you so wish.

Though it is handy sometimes when you REALLY need for that one remaining ork to fail the Ld test.

Does a unit have mob rule all game regardless of what size the unit eventully end's up being? even one guy on his own still has it as he was once part of a mob?

Yes, he does. Meaning, if you really want, you can make him Ld1

deejaybainbridge wrote:

Gwar! wrote:And to just double clarify, Mob rule is OPTIONAL. You can always choose to use your normal Ld if you so wish.

Though it is handy sometimes when you REALLY need for that one remaining ork to fail the Ld test.

Does a unit have mob rule all game regardless of what size the unit eventully end's up being? even one guy on his own still has it as he was once part of a mob?

Yes. The "Mob Rule" is just a special rule. If the unit has that rule, all members have that rule. So an Ork Boy Squad that is down to 2 models can choose to use Ld 2 or Ld 7. A single ork Boy can, likewise, use Ld 1 or 7.

Great cheers gwar!

So i'm asuming that the fearless rule is lost once the squad drops below 11? or does the unit have it all game regardless of what size it gets reduced to?

deejaybainbridge wrote:Great cheers gwar!

So i'm asuming that the fearless rule is lost once the squad drops below 11? or does the unit have it all game regardless of what size it gets reduced to?

You assume correctly.

Gwar! wrote:

deejaybainbridge wrote:Great cheers gwar!

So i'm asuming that the fearless rule is lost once the squad drops below 11? or does the unit have it all game regardless of what size it gets reduced to?

You assume correctly.

Also, because I don't have the Ork Codex and can't check, does mob rule allow you to use the unit strength for all LD rolls or just morale checks?

PS. I was the daemon player in the battle mentioned by the OP.

It specifies you can replace your ld value with the number of boys, there is no restriction on WHY you are doing this.

Cool. Cheers.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Also, no stat can EVER go above 10, apart from atttacks (and then only temporarily) - so in example 1 they are Ld10. or 7, as you can still use your basic leadership.

Mob rule clearly states your CURRENT mob size may be used.

Just for slightly-off-topic reference: page 6 details that no characteristic may ever be raised above 10, however armour values are an exception since they range from 10 to 14 as per page 54, and page 37 gives the exception for number of attacks. Unfortunately, GW spreads related rules out all over the rule book(s).

Unfortunately, GW spreads related rules out all over the rule book(s).

Too true. For the query the OP mentions above. I had to go to the universal rules for fearless, then Morale checks, Leadership tests and finally page 6 for the capping of characteristics at 10. I also had to post my query on Ork Mob Rule on here as I don't own the codex so couldn't check it out. Special rules like that could easily be summarised in the BRB for quick reference during play. All they gotta do is take out all the Gak about Tournaments and Apocalypse and all the other stuff 70-80% of people who buy the book aren't interested in/ can't afford to play etc. and there'd be plenty of room for Special rules on the race summary pages.

Aghhh! Bring back 1st or 2nd edition (I don't mind which).

No-ones stopping you playing 2nd...

Gwar! wrote:No-ones stopping you playing 2nd...

Other than he might have trouble finding opponents .

Dude I was just making an observation. I don't mind 5th with a bit of Necromunda on the side. I was just agreeing with what Mahtamori said in previous post with a colourful phrase.

And as VoxDel says I could maybe rustle up 1 opponent, maybe two. Not much point in that really.