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If Abaddon were to take Cadia roughly how long do you reckon it would take for chaos to get to Terra and get past it's defences? Im just curious in the increasingly likely event he succeeds.

Never!

It would be difficult to say really. On a world like cadia and its military background you could bet there would be a resistance/insurgency movement against chaos forces. Plus it would likely lead to a counter crusade with new regiments of imperial guard founded and reserve chapter space marines to retake the territory lost. Such a large event wouldn't be ignored by wider Imperial forces.

Wait isn't the status of the 13th black crusade a bunch of chaos boyz stranded on cadia with no reinforcements due to a pretty bitching naval victory

i would think the attacks from almost, if not every, space marine chapter would kill off the chaos attack or at least force a standstill on cadia which will make everything just how it is now save chaos has cadia

Ennkay wrote:Wait isn't the status of the 13th black crusade a bunch of chaos boyz stranded on cadia with no reinforcements due to a pretty bitching naval victory

I think that about sums it up actually!

Alpharius wrote:

Ennkay wrote:Wait isn't the status of the 13th black crusade a bunch of chaos boyz stranded on cadia with no reinforcements due to a pretty bitching naval victory

I think that about sums it up actually!

Darn tootin'. The Imperial navy pretty much smacked Abaddon's fleet upside the head, as the saying goes.

alas in the realm of 40k everything is static. timeless even. I remember thinking during that campaign "theres no way they'll get cadia. Look at all the fluff they'd have to rewrite." I'd like to see some kind of plot progression every once in a while. The only thing I can remember that came close to that was eldrad dying during the gothic war. That was sweet.

Much as I love chaos we are the cartoon villains of 40k. If we win the game is up, the show ends - therefor we will enver win. Alas.
AF

Yesssss, now twirl that cartoon moustache!!!

Ennkay wrote:Wait isn't the status of the 13th black crusade a bunch of chaos boyz stranded on cadia with no reinforcements due to a pretty bitching naval victory

Yup, sounds like Abaddon.

But why have victory , ending in peace when you can have ENDLESS CARNEGE!

Jihadnik wrote:Yesssss, now twirl that cartoon moustache!!!

Ha!

I LOL'd!

And really, for all the running in place that Abbadon (40K) and Archaon (WFB) do, they should have been 'gifted' with Spawndom by now!

Increasingly likely? So that means by black crusade 30 or 40 Terra is soo screwed

Alpharius wrote:

Jihadnik wrote:Yesssss, now twirl that cartoon moustache!!!

Ha!

I LOL'd!

And really, for all the running in place that Abbadon (40K) and Archaon (WFB) do, they should have been 'gifted' with Spawndom by now!

Har Har. Running in place is putting it nicely for abbaddon (lol Aba-spawn) I'd say its more like standing in place.maybe moving your rams around abit.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Never!

Agreed. The gate is irrelevant and a propaganda myth by Abaddon in case he loses, yet again.

There's nothing stopping the Legions from dropping into Terran space any time, at least for the minute until all the Nova bombs hit them.

How has Abaddon not simply "Exterminatus-ed" Cadia?

you need a navy to do it, the imperials control the space around cadia. also there is a limited supply of chaos space marines too many of them are on the planets surface. Even Abaddon isnt that wasteful of his own guys.

Im just saying that it might have been better for him to do that than repeatedly fail on Cadia's doorstep over and over.

Maybe next time...

Don't be so judgemental about Abaddon.

The poor guy doesn't have any arms :(

Th3ee Legged Dog wrote:How has Abaddon not simply "Exterminatus-ed" Cadia?

Because with destroying Cadia: it destroys the Pylon system on the ground, which is pretty widely regarded(by both the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Dark Mechanicus, not to mention a lot of influential Inquisitors) to be why the "Eye of Terror" exists.

Basically, short infomercial here:
There are dozens of areas where the Warp is calm enough to allow for individual ships, or small flotillas to exit with no real difficulty.
But the "Eye of Terror"? It's a huge area of becalmed Warp/Real-Space intersections that allows for massed warfleets to exit all at once, maintaining the cohesion necessary to mount an all out assault all at once.

Kanluwen wrote:

Th3ee Legged Dog wrote:How has Abaddon not simply "Exterminatus-ed" Cadia?

Because with destroying Cadia: it destroys the Pylon system on the ground, which is pretty widely regarded(by both the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Dark Mechanicus, not to mention a lot of influential Inquisitors) to be why the "Eye of Terror" exists.

Basically, short infomercial here:
There are dozens of areas where the Warp is calm enough to allow for individual ships, or small flotillas to exit with no real difficulty.
But the "Eye of Terror"? It's a huge area of becalmed Warp/Real-Space intersections that allows for massed warfleets to exit all at once, maintaining the cohesion necessary to mount an all out assault all at once.

Ok than why does Cadia simply not destroy the Pylon's? Or is this super important for Cadia to enter the eye of terror as well, which seems counter productive.

Think about it:
Would you rather have one stable pathway, that you can fortify...

Or have your opponent using dozens of them scattered across light-years that you have to keep a constant vigil on?

In the first one: It's all localized to one area. You can fortify it, and keep your enemy using it--which is predictable.

Kanluwen wrote:Think about it:
Would you rather have one stable pathway, that you can fortify...

Or have your opponent using dozens of them scattered across light-years that you have to keep a constant vigil on?

In the first one: It's all localized to one area. You can fortify it, and keep your enemy using it--which is predictable.

Pretty much. For differing and similar reasons each side values cadia. Each side has more to lose than gain via its loss.

Then explain the Gothic. that didn't have anything to do with Cadia and was a decades long Chaos campaign replete with the aforementioned Abaddon. Its where he got his cool toys.

Same to same for the Sabbat Crusade, which was even larger. Chaos seems able to leave the warp where it wants, when it wants.

Again Cadia's PR. Abaddon know's his life expectancy is nil when he warps until Earth space. He's a wussy. Not like the Iron Warriors. They are real men and should lead...

Kanluwen wrote:Because with destroying Cadia: it destroys the Pylon system on the ground, which is pretty widely regarded(by both the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Dark Mechanicus, not to mention a lot of influential Inquisitors) to be why the "Eye of Terror" exists.

What? No, the pylons are speculated to be why the Cadian Gate exists, not the Eye of Terror.
The Eye was created by the birth of Slaanesh, which is the reason why the Eldar Crone Worlds are within the Eye. The Cadian gate, on the other hand, is a stable corridor of space leading out of the Eye of Terror. And the pylons littering the surface of Cadia are thought to explain "the quieting of the violent warp torrents that makes the Cadia Gate".

Also, this exchange in Soul Hunter seems somewhat relevant to the discussion:

"You seem unimpressed by my assurance [that Cadia will be destroyed]," the Warmaster said.
"With respect, sir, all of your previous crusades have failed."
"Is that so? Are you one of my inner circle, to judge whether my plans come to pass and my objectives were met?"

Frazzled wrote:Then explain the Gothic. that didn't have anything to do with Cadia and was a decades long Chaos campaign replete with the aforementioned Abaddon. Its where he got his cool toys.

The Gothic War was one of those "small incursions". And in terms of wars...it really was small.

Same to same for the Sabbat Crusade, which was even larger. Chaos seems able to leave the warp where it wants, when it wants.

The Sabbat Worlds Crusade isn't named as such because of the Chaos forces involved. It was called that because it was the Imperium launching a Crusade to reclaim the Sabbat Worlds.

Again Cadia's PR. Abaddon knows his life expectancy is nil when he warps into Earth space. He's a wussy. Not like the Iron Warriors. They are real men and should lead...

There's no Warp paths that lead directly to Earth that would allow for the kind of massive warfleets that would be required to bulldozer through the defenses in the Sol system.

Æscholt wrote:What? No, the pylons are speculated to be why the Cadian Gate exists, not the Eye of Terror.

Shush you! I can make minor contextual mistakes!

The Gothic War was one of those "small incursions". And in terms of wars...it really was small.
***There's a quote somewhere about the largest fleet action since the heresy. I wouldn't say small.

Same to same for the Sabbat Crusade, which was even larger. Chaos seems able to leave the warp where it wants, when it wants.

Gothic War: No ground war="small" in 40kverse terms. The goal was to seize the Blackstone Fortresses and get the hell out. There's a few stable Warp rifts in the area, and Abbadon can manufacture more for short periods of time, if necessary. And he could have been building up his presence before launching his first strike, etc etc. Any number of ways to have his ships in the sector to launch the assault.

Sabbat Worlds Crusade: Except the forces involved in the Sabbat Worlds weren't really "Chaos" forces coming from the Eye of Terror. The closest was on the "Steppe Cities" in 'His Last Command', where the cities were ancient ruins had been built a long, long, long time ago expressly for the purpose of weakening the fabric between Reality and the Warp: allowing for near instantaneous travel between the two and ambushing Imperial forces.

There was virtually no Renegade Astartes involvement, barring a few Iron Warriors(and I'm talking literally a few. We saw maybe four of them in the first two books, and that was it for them) early on, and what seems to be a few at least Power Armored "Huntsmen" on Gereon--and they seem to have pulled their support after that.

Pretty much all the forces involved in the Sabbat Worlds were former Imperial servants who were in the sector to begin with.
The Blood Pact uses former Imperial soldiery, Pater Sin's cult would blend in easy enough on any world and can easily acquire civilian transport to move(as evidenced in 'Blood Pact' and 'Sabbat Martyr').

Warp Paths and Earth:
What better support than the fact that it hasn't been done yet, or that the Traitor Astartes fleets had to make for the Eye of Terror after their defeat at Terra in the Heresy?

Notice: I said there's no paths that would allow for the kind of massive warfleets required.
Not that there's no Warp paths that would lead to Earth.

Frazzled wrote:Then explain the Gothic. that didn't have anything to do with Cadia and was a decades long Chaos campaign replete with the aforementioned Abaddon. Its where he got his cool toys.

To wage the Gothic War Abaddon left the Eye of Terror near Arx system. It's still possible for Chaos to leave the Eye wherever, but "no force of any size can venture forth from the Eye without first passing through [the Cadian Gate]".

Frazzled wrote:Same to same for the Sabbat Crusade, which was even larger. Chaos seems able to leave the warp where it wants, when it wants.

The Sabbat Worlds Crusade is in no way larger than the Black Crusades. And of course Chaos can leave the warp wherever it wants, so can the Imperium. But they can't move a large force out of the part turmoil out of the Eye (which is a huge warp storm) without having fleets lost to the warp, ravaged by daemons, scattered across the segmentum, or whatever. It took Abaddon years to gather his forces outside the Eye in preparation to move on the Gothic sector, and most of the time Chaos doesn't have that luxury.

Kanluwen wrote:Shush you! I can make minor contextual mistakes!

Ah, righto. No harm, no foul.

Meh, jump the shark moment. once they are out of the Eye they can go anywhere. They are now out of the Eye.