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Haha yeah, I'm slowly working my way through all the codicies. Here's my first IG attempt. I'll try to make it as organized as possible

HQs:
Company Command Squad #1
Commander w/ PF, Veteren w/ Medipack
+ Master of Ordinance
+ 2 Bodyguards
+ Carapace Armor
+ vox caster
Riding in a Chimera (HB + HF)

Company Command Squad #2
w/ vox caster (just on foot buried around units)

Troops:
Infantry Platoon #1
P. Command Squad (vox caster)
x3 Infantry Platoons (vox casters, meltabombs)
(x2) x3 Heavy Weapon Team + Autocannons

Infantry Platoon #2
P. Command Squad (vox caster)
x2 Infantry Platoon (combined w/ Meltabombs + vox caster)

Demolitions Veteran Squad w/ Valkyrie Assault Transport

Demolitions Veteran Squad w/ Valkyrie Assault Transport

Heavy Support:
x2 Hydras w/ HFs
x1 Manticore w/ HF

Total :1500 points

I think I have it all laid out nicely. It looks dead killy to me

None of your infantry besides the HWSs are carrying any ranged weapons - why, why why? Are you going to lasgun and meltabomb your opponents to death?

Start over, give every unit a full complement of special weapons. Give the infantry squads heavy weapons teams as well, if you want them to hold home objectives. Then consider demolitions, voxes, meltabombs etc.

At least your heavy support section looks good. Unfortunately that's the only part of the army which is going to kill a damn thing. I suppose the valkyries and demo teams have a shot, if your opponent is silly enough to deploy in range of them.

Hi Koski

Welcome to the guard.

Unfortunately i'm going to have to second bounty-hunt. why do you hate your guardsmen so Guard as a rule work well if you don't go nuts with add ons but you have to give them something Lasguns are rubbish, they are ablative wounds you occasionally suprise you and kill something. Your first CCS bloated with add ons to keep your commader alive but with your current army setup keeping him alive means nothing.

Your heavy support and fast attack are ok but you really need to rework your CCS and troops. Drop the second CCS unless you are going to give them all meltas put them in a transport and go tank hunting, and like bounty hunt said for the love of the emprah give those men something with more punch than lasguns.

actually, I'm kind of taken aback by the humor of giving squads no guns, but taking extra officers and vox nets to make sure they follow their orders. Which orders?

I mean, for a TOTAL noob to guard, this list isnt' awful. That said, it could use a bit of work.

For one, the CCS needs to be totally rearranged (a common mistake in new guard players). You're buying carapace and a medic and two bodyguards and a chimera, spending 135 points to protect your officer. Why?

Also, you can't use the MoO in any turn in which you moved, and you can't use FomT on him because you can't give orders to a unit mounted in a chimera. Even worse, you're wasting a lot of good BS4 slots for no weapons.

Which, as has been mentioned, is the core problem to this list. You have a big contingency of it that has no killing power. Without a standard or commissar, they also have no durability. Basically, this means that your 1500 point list has a 365 point hole in it. This is bad. It's also not counting the ~200 points spent on vets that will lob 1 demo charge and then be useless.

What I'd do is consolidate your list a bit, and spend the points freed up on making what you do have better. By this, I mean drop either the infantry platoons, the vets and vendettas, or your whole HS section. This will give you more quality and more redundancy, which will help you better over all.

I just want them to lasgun things to death. The price of giving them special weapons makes them much more expensive. I as half assuming people are going to get into "range" of guards anyways.

I was hoping to use bring it down and the cover save order to just overly lasgun everything, and meltabomb walkers if I have to. Sure they're half useless vs. T5 and above models. But that's why I have a lot of autocannons.

I normally play MEQ stuff so it felt wasted to still spend 10 points for a meltagun on guards. I was looking at other IG lists and yeah everyone spams special weapons on units.


The entire idea of my list was pretty much "Nothing moves ever" they just stand still and my ordnance weapons blast away. round 3-4 I'll just fly in on objectives with the Valkyries. If anyone so happened to walk into range of my lasguns I was going to mass shoot them with TL lasguns and the "3 lasgun shots instead of 2" commands and whatnot.

I fully understand making better use oif the Company Command Squad. I wanted the master of ordnance to just stand still in the chimera with them hiding somewhere so they can give orders all the time. Then the PF was for when they inevitably get into CC hence they're livability.

Is it neccisary to take special weapons on IG platoons? I mean they all have to shoot at the same thing anyways, so maybe grenade launchers or a plasma gun I could see. But for the points I wanted to just keep everything cheap as gak and get more hvy weapon teams or more killy.

I just wanted to make my one CCS a livable as possible since they're all pretty squishy and people normally gun for HQ units. I just wanted to toss out orders a lot and make use of things like "bring it down" and whatnot.

I've never come across this type of reasoning before . . . and there's a reason why: it doesn't work!

When you see every other guard list contains special weapons, that is probably because it works. The generally accepted wisdom, as said above, is that guard infantry are really just bodies, good for scoring and soaking up bullets. The special and heavy weapons are what get the job done. Always, always take them. Lasguns are just terrible against most opponents in the game. You say you want to play against MEQ - take some plasmaguns and autocannons/missile launchers. Lasguns are not the way forward. A 10 point meltagun is a far better weapon than 5-point meltabombs.

Koski wrote:I just want them to lasgun things to death. The price of giving them special weapons makes them much more expensive. I as half assuming people are going to get into "range" of guards anyways.

Yes, it's true that you will find yourself in range of stuff. Why is this an excuse to ineffective squads?

And yes, special and heavy weapons make the squad more expensive, but it's the cost:EFFECTIVENESS ratio that's important here. I mean, if you were given the option to take a 50 point upgrade that just let you auto-win every game, would you not take it because it's too expensive?

For example:

10 lasguns vs. guard puts down 3.3 of them in a single volley. Increase the price of the squad by 10% for a flamer and, assuming only 4 hits, that number jumps to 5.6. A 10% price hike for closing on +100% effectiveness? Sounds like a good deal to me. Repeat this experiment with plasma guns against marines and you get the same result.

Koski wrote:I was hoping to use bring it down and the cover save order to just overly lasgun everything

Bring it down on lasguns is worthless, as lasguns either literally or basically can't hurt anything you can use BiD on. Furthermore, you can't lasgun anything while you're under the effects of "incoming!"

Koski wrote:Sure they're half useless vs. T5 and above models. But that's why I have a lot of autocannons.

A single trooper with a lasgun is actually 95% useless against T5 and T6 models, not 50%.

The above statement comes from math, which if you'd do for the autocannons, you'd see that you have problems with them as well.

Koski wrote:The entire idea of my list was pretty much "Nothing moves ever" they just stand still and my ordnance weapons blast away.

Then get ready to lose a lot of 5th ed games. The quality of your list won't do much for you if the strategy itself is designed for failure.

Koski wrote:round 3-4 I'll just fly in on objectives with the Valkyries.

Unless your opponent swats them out of the sky, which they will if you only bring a couple of them and they're your only hope for objectives grabbing.

Koski wrote:If anyone so happened to walk into range of my lasguns I was going to mass shoot them with TL lasguns and the "3 lasgun shots instead of 2" commands and whatnot.

Once again, you've got to run the numbers. Lasguns are not useless, but just FRFing them does not magically make them useful.

Koski wrote:Is it neccisary to take special weapons on IG platoons?

No. You could take heavy weapons or power weapons instead.

That said, you've got to take ONE of those things at least for every guard squad for them to be useful at killing anything.

Koski wrote:But for the points I wanted to just keep everything cheap as gak and get more hvy weapon teams or more killy.

Sure, but if you're taking PISs anyways, then it's much cheaper to spend 15 points for 3 mortars in squads that you're already taking anyways than to spend 60 points for ones you weren't.

Koski wrote:I just wanted to make my one CCS a livable as possible since they're all pretty squishy and people normally gun for HQ units. I just wanted to toss out orders a lot and make use of things like "bring it down" and whatnot.

Sure, but bring it down on what? The lackluster amount of firepower you're bringing is unlikely to bring anything down, orders or not.

BiD only actually does something when you're using it on guns that are already effective against the targets they're shooting at (for example, BiD meltaguns against vehicles, or BiD plasma against MCs).

Ooooo burn. Yeah I've never done IG. I'm used to "pick the strongest thing"

Man it stings.

I'm just starting over, sorry about the stupidity, I have learned many a thing.

Time to figure out a useful HQ....

how's CCS w/ Camo Cloaks, vox caster, x3 sniper rifles?

Hide them behind all your groups, they can still be effective with they're BS4 and not have to move?

I think my major downfall is not enough different people to play against, and I've never used a non 3+ armor save model...