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Now, it makes a lot of sense to me that a LRBT wouldn't JUST carry HE rounds like the game currently goes. As such, I propose this new rule.

Vanquisher Shells: S8* AP3 Heavy 1

The Leman Russ crew loads up specialized armour piercing rounds that sacrifice explosive yield for deathly anti tank potential. Any Leman Russ Battle Tank may take Vanquisher shells for 15 points. Whenever the Leman Russ fire, you may choose whether it fires a Vanquisher shell or a regular battle cannon shell.

*Roll 2d6 for armor penetration

Well what do you think? If this is well liked I was thinking about making more rules for other shell types.

That's exactly how the Leman Russ Vanquisher used to work. In the old old IG codex the Vanquisher was just a more expensive Russ with the option to fire antitank shells.

Huh. Well, I joined 5th Edition so I actually didn't know about that. I would prefer those old rules though....Would make the Vanquisher less sucky.

This would make the already bleh Vanquisher more bleh, there would be no reason to take a Vanquisher if LRBT had this ability.

True, I suppose the better thing to say would be it'd let the Guard realistically USE their awesome sounding anti tank gun.

If you made this upgrade for the standard Russ cost more points than a Vanquisher (neither having any upgrades points wise), it may be usable, a multi-role Russ. But this would then make a Vanquisher pointless.

Not to completely destroy your idea, but unless the shell types were other than the shells for the other Russ variants (try Auger shells, as seen in Honour Guard), you would make the variant useless, as everyone could run a basic Russ (albeit expensive) which would fill the role of some others.

As a counter to my previous point, make it so that you have shell types for several different jobs (making them a little worse than the dedicated-role-Russ of that type), give them a pts value each, then allow the standard Russ to choose ONE 'special' shell-type in addition to its normal shells, representing space reasons within the tank.

If you can come up with some good shell types for other roles, a better judgement can be made by Dakka (probably )

Why not make it one-shot only? That fixes the Vanquisher issue, and if you need anti-tank in a pinch, you still have it.

Read the armoured company rules in IA1/2 it's got rules for different shells there. Pretty much what you wrote but i use only.

Yeah, I was thinking of maybe making it like that. Maybe it could take multiple sets of 'special' ammo but if you take more than one, each is one shot only?

Ahhh, so there are rules for multiple shells? My bad....I've never done anything but gawk longingly at Forge World stuff, so I've never even look at ANY of the Imperial Armor books. Still, I'm getting the vibe now that my creative spurt here wasn't really all that creative, and that this ideas been tried a lot before. To a veteran whose been around longer, how DID the multiple shell types thing work out? DId no one use them, and GW thought they'd use a dedicated Vanquisher more?

What if it was Str8 Ap3 (Small Blast?) but gained only an extra D3 penetration?

This way it has an increased AT role while not being as effective as the vanquisher.

That's okay... I would drop ALL AP to make it balanced. I'd say:
STR 9 AP -

Gains 2d6 armor pen
Limited ammunitions (maybe four)

If you want AP you can use the regular shells.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's okay... I would drop ALL AP to make it balanced. I'd say:
STR 9 AP -

Gains 2d6 armor pen
Limited ammunitions (maybe four)

If you want AP you can use the regular shells.

Samus_aran115 wrote:That's okay... I would drop ALL AP to make it balanced. I'd say:
STR 9 AP -

Gains 2d6 armor pen
Limited ammunitions (maybe four)

If you want AP you can use the regular shells.

That makes it worse than regular shells at killing vehicles below AV13.

xxBlazinGhostxx wrote:This would make the already bleh Vanquisher more bleh, there would be no reason to take a Vanquisher if LRBT had this ability.

I would still use the model. I like the long-barreled Vanquisher cannon as opposed to the generic LR one.

Samus_aran115 wrote:That's okay... I would drop ALL AP to make it balanced. I'd say:
STR 9 AP -

Gains 2d6 armor pen
Limited ammunitions (maybe four)

If you want AP you can use the regular shells.

That could work but it needs an Ap, Perhaps 6 as that makes it more effective Vs armour than - but not very powerful against any useful infantry. Give it one or two shots and slap the price sticker on.

I'd personally give it AP1 actually, maybe make it small blast, but it's only AP1 under the center of the template. This could: a) Eliminate the biggest problem people seem to have with the Vanquisher, and b) Represent the fact that an uber tank piercing shell would punch through terminator armor just as well as tank armor.

I'd like to throw in my idea of Auger shells again, maybe +1 on the next damage roll against the vehicle?

But the idea of buying one-shots does make sense from a tactical point of view, as long as they're well priced.

And not AP- for shells, that wouldn't fit the AT role of the shell. AP1 for power, but at S8, or AP2 or higher at S9

@ChrisWWII: I wouldn't say make it small blast, as it could scatter and its simpler for an AP shell to be one shot that can miss more easily. The shot is designed to penetrate then explode, not just Fire-Scatter-BOOM, more Fire-Hit/Miss-Clunk-BOOM. Does that make sense?

Hmmm...maybe auger shells.

And yeah...maybe each uber-shell is like...2 points?

But glad you agree....AP1 at S8 would be perfect I think with the 2d6 armor pen.

Hmmm...yeah, I guess your right. I do think of it as more a discard sabot or HEAT shell that the good ol' Vanquisher is firing.

ChrisWWII wrote:Hmmm...maybe auger shells.

And yeah...maybe each uber-shell is like...2 points?

But glad you agree....AP1 at S8 would be perfect I think with the 2d6 armor pen.

Hmmm...yeah, I guess your right. I do think of it as more a discard sabot or HEAT shell that the good ol' Vanquisher is firing.

I'd say four points apiece, for a maximum of four shells. It gives you four turns where you can utilize either type of firing, making it far more versatile than either the LRBT or Vanquisher. For 170 points, I'd take that.

The way they did in IA1 was S8 AP3 Heavy 1 (roll 2D6 and pick then highest for armour penetration)

EmilCrane wrote:The way they did in IA1 was S8 AP3 Heavy 1 (roll 2D6 and pick then highest for armour penetration)

Which is what the generic LR does, it just has a template that can scatter.
The above profile you listed, is one that I would never take.

Che-Vito wrote:

EmilCrane wrote:The way they did in IA1 was S8 AP3 Heavy 1 (roll 2D6 and pick then highest for armour penetration)

Which is what the generic LR does, it just has a template that can scatter.
The above profile you listed, is one that I would never take.

That was back when LRBTs couldn't fire on the move with ordnance

Yeah.....At least the Vanquisher is roll 2d6 for armor pen.

So, current rule is as stands.

Armor Piercing Shells

The Leman Russ Battletank can take a limited number of specialized anti armor shells to supplement its ability to destroy enemy tanks. These anti armor shells have the following profile: S9 AP1 Roll 2d6 for armor pen. On any turn, a Leman Russ Battletank may choose to fire a specialized armor shell out of its inventory instead of a normal battle cannon shot.

A Leman Russ Battletank can take a maximum of 5 Anti armor shells at a cost of 4 points a shell.

for 170 pts, I'd take that over a Vanquisher any day.

Glad to know it...time to print these out and see if anyone will play test 'em.