Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was just wondering if you could do something like this:

My idea was if you have land raider crusader, and a trukk loaded with boys, could you use power of the machine spirit to pop the transport with the multimelta atop the land raider, then mow down the occupants with the hurricane bolters and Tl assault cannon? I never thought of it, and never hear of anyone doing it, but the multimelta can (due to potms) technically target a different unit. But the problem arises when someone argues all shooting is done at the same time. Someone please help me

I posted this over in tactics too, where it became undecided, so brought it here.

Jaon wrote:I was just wondering if you could do something like this:

My idea was if you have land raider crusader, and a trukk loaded with boys, could you use power of the machine spirit to pop the transport with the multimelta atop the land raider, then mow down the occupants with the hurricane bolters and Tl assault cannon? I never thought of it, and never hear of anyone doing it, but the multimelta can (due to potms) technically target a different unit. But the problem arises when someone argues all shooting is done at the same time. Someone please help me

I posted this over in tactics too, where it became undecided, so brought it here.

No.

It would be spelled out in the rules for Destroying vehicles on page 67 in your BRB.

For the rule to work you first pop the transport with the melta then you can target the squad inside with one weapon only from using power of the machine spirit.

Riddick40k wrote:For the rule to work you first pop the transport with the melta then you can target the squad inside with one weapon only from using power of the machine spirit.

No, I don't think so. POTMS doesn't override the fact that a unit fires all of it's weapons at once.

Riddick40k wrote:For the rule to work you first pop the transport with the melta then you can target the squad inside with one weapon only from using power of the machine spirit.

What?

No, that's not how it works at all. You have to declare ALL your target before doing any shooting. That includes if you target of another unit with PotMS. You cannot shoot at the disembarked passengers because it was not a legal unit to target at the time you declared your targeting. What you can do is destroy the trukk with, say, a devastator squad and THEN unload into the boyz with the Land Raider.

There doesn't look to be an absolute RAW answer to this.

That said, the fluff (which is not rules) says POTMS allows the crew to fire with incredible accuracy.

Fluff aside, POTMS allows the Land Raider to fire one more weapon than would be allowed. It can be fired at a different unit.

Though it doesn't specifically say it, it looks as if this additional weapon firing would be done at the same time as the other weapons on the Land Raider, so I would say that you couldn't fire the MM at a transport and then use POTMS to fire at the passengers.

There is also the rule on page 67 that reminds us that all models in a single unit fire simultaneously, but whether this would apply to this situation is unclear because normally all members of a unit must fire at the same target but POTMS allows you to choose different targets.

time wizard wrote:There doesn't look to be an absolute RAW answer to this.

Yes there is--you cannot target embarked units.
Since a unit's firing occurs simultaneously, PoTMS cannot target units embarked before the vehicle fires.

It states it can be fired at a different target, doesnt say anything about it having to shoot all its weapons at once

Riddick40k wrote:It states it can be fired at a different target, doesnt say anything about it having to shoot all its weapons at once

The shooting rules do illustrate this though. The Land Raider has to declare all of it's targets at once, the POTMS only dictates how many weapons and or what those weapons are shooting at.

Riddick40k wrote:It states it can be fired at a different target, doesnt say anything about it having to shoot all its weapons at once

The rules for units shooting states all shots occur at once. For PotMS to work differently you have to have an explicit rule to override this.

time wizard wrote:There doesn't look to be an absolute RAW answer to this.

Yes there is.

time wizard wrote:Though it doesn't specifically say it, it looks as if this additional weapon firing would be done at the same time as the other weapons on the Land Raider

It doesn't need to specifically say it, it already says that all a unit's weapons are fired simultaneously. It would need to specifically say that this was not the case for the PotMS.

Normally... RAW (without POTMS)

A Vehicle must fire all of its weapons (that it is able to fire and that it chooses to fire) at the same target.
All of these weapons must fire at the same time.

POTMS added in...

A Land raider must fire all of its weapons (that it is able to fire and that it chooses to fire) at the same target, in addition, one weapon may be chosen to target a seperate unit (with added bonuses regarding stunned, etc)
All of these weapons must fire at the same time.

----------

You have permission to target a seperate unit, and fire an additional weapon under certain circumstances.
But permission is not given to fire at seperate times, you must still follow the rules.

Thanks for the help guys, cleared this up for me.