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Ok i really wanted to try a new army and move away from the SM brrigade so i have been looking at the Tau

I currently own 2000pts of SM and zero of Tau so looking on the net for a starting point i found this list, and would like some help in changing it or learning to use it ,so any advice would be welcome since i want the list set before i spend my dosh on stuff i wont use
After reading the codex this looked like a good list my only fear being the lack of Long range fire power on the Tau Battlesuit Team

and yes i know learning to use the tau for a SM player will be hard but i really do fancy being different and not the usual Sm player

HQ
Tau Shas’el with Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multitracker, Hardwired Drone Controller with 2 shield drones
2 Bodyguards with Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Hardwired Multitracker, Targeting Array

Troops

(X3) 6 man Fire warrior Team
Devilfish with Smart Missile System, Targeting Array, Multitracker, Disruption Pod, Flechette Discharger

Elites
Tau Battlesuit Team
2 Battlesuits with twin linked flamers and single missile pods

Heavy

Hammerhead with Railgun, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array (comes as standard), Multitracker, Disruption Pod, Flechette Discharger

Skyray with Smart Missile System, Target Lock (comes as standard), Targeting Array, Multitracker, Disruption Pod, Flechette Discharger

2 man Broadside Team with Targeting Arrays
Leader, Hardwired Drone Controller with 2 shield drones

It would be a forgiving first tau army. a decent amount of overlapping firepower. although you could pair down some of the upgrades on the fish to make the crisis suits better at anti tank.


just a thought hope that helps.

Skyray is fail dump it. Hammerhead needs a buddy. Other than that this is a solid starting point.

Troops section is good How many points is this though? It looks 1500? In which case you can get away with only 2 troops for Tau.

The biggest whole is no marker lights. they really are the back bone of the Tau army. You're an elite shooting army with Bs3, you'll never do enough damage without ML support. Pathfinders are the cheapest way to get them into your army 2 units of 5-6 would only cost you 120 or so points. They also have to take devilfishes but just dump the DF on the FW squads and have the PF take them instead but have the FW ride in them.

The braodsides need ASS otherwise you are essentially conceedingh any DoW deployment (which granted even with ASS you are still majorly screwed in).

You also need more suits. I'd also dump the TLflamer suits for deathrains. That is twin-linked missile pods and either a TA for ultimate reliability or flamer for cheapness and last minute horde control. But eitherway it needs to be a unit of 3. I'd suggest to start with all your suits are either deathrains for fireknives (plasma and missile pod). The only exception could be the commander as the AFP can be a brilliant weapon (swap out his PR for it).

I like most of FiN's advice. On the suit changes, go FKs, FireStorm (BC/MP/MT) or the Deathrain, in that order.

Also, I'd take away the bodyguard, and just have 'em as elites. Give the HQ a hwTarget Lock and he can join them for protection.

Minor adjustments:
1. I'd drop the Flechettes in case you're pinching points
2. Bond the b-side team, as a few points is worth saving a surviving suit.
3. Increase the FW units, as FishofFury can devastate ork/gant hordes.

Railheads every time over SkyRays.

Thanks for the advice will sit down later and rework my list my only concern with dropping a FW squad is lack of troops in objective games

Thanks for the advice will sit down later and rework my list my only concern with dropping a FW squad is lack of troops in objective games

Use our troops like eldar. Don't put them in the fight and keep them in reserve or out of LoS. With a positional relay you can keep both Devilfishes and 2 troops units in reserve and ensure each turn they come out in the order. Transport then ride, Transport then ride. You only need to hold 1 objective if you can contest the others (Piranhas are good for this).

If you plan on using your FWs in the fight then follow Brothererekose's advice and go to full 12 man squads. Make sure to use the higher flying base if you do though for the devilfish or you won't be able to fish of fury.

Ok taking what Advice have got, i have gone for this
I didnt take Pathfinders because the FW are not expected to do much shooting and the rest of my list has TA
From what i have been advised here and what i have read this list should fare well
this is a list to play friendly games since right now i have no intension of doing tournments
feel free to criticise or applaud the list but most of all thanks for the advice



i Usualy play SW ,Eldar ,IG and Tyranids so heres hoping

HQ
Tau Sha'el with Plasma rifle ,Missile pod , Hardwired Multitracker ,Hardwired Target lock and Positional Relay

Elites

Tau Battle suit team
(X3) Plasma rifle , Missile pod and Multitracker
leader with Hardwired Drone Controller and 2 Gun drones

(X3) TL Missile pod and Targeting Array
leader with Hardwired Drone Controller and 2 Gun drones


Troops

(X2) 6 man Fire warrior Team
Devilfish with Disruption Pod

Fast attak
(X6) Pathfinders Devilfish with Disruption pod and Targeting Array

Heavy Support

Hammerhead with Railgun, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array (comes as standard), Multitracker, Disruption Pod and Flechette Discharger

Hammerhead with Railgun, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array (comes as standard), Multitracker, Disruption Pod and Flechette Discharger

2 Man Broadside Team with ASS
Leader, Hardwired Drone Controller with 2 shield Drones

Edited to reflect the further advice i have been given

still new so is this legal?

Both your crisis teams are illegal you have 4 hardpoints on them and they're only allowed 3, with the team leader on the plasma rifle team having 5! Besides even BS4 with those plasmas is not that threatening when everything gets a coversave. Marker lights don't just boost BS they also strip cover! Also get multi-trakers on the plasma and missile pod teams they can then throw out a lot of fire power.

I'd also consider dropping down the warfish in your lisst. WIth 2 troops choices you don't want them in the fight at all so spending the points on a warfish seems a little redundant. Disruption Pod and at a push flechettes is all you need on them. Their job is to survive and take objectives not to fight.

Your Broadsides have too many hardpoints as well. Broadsides can only take 1 hardpoint, so you have to choose between the TA and ASS.

I'd like to see at least one Fireknife team (PR/MP/MT) to accompany the commander, or at least give him a HW Target lock so he can join a crisis team and still shoot at different targets.

The Flechette Dischargers, while good, at 1500 I find them a points sink if taken on too many vehicles. Maybe take them off and throw in some Gun Drones with your Crisis Teams for absorbing those S8+ wounds.

The Positional Relay can be given to your commander if you hardwire his Multi-tracker, so you can downgrade the Shas'vre to a Shas'ui Team Leader and gain 5 extra points.

And the Commander generaly dosen't need Shield Drones if the team he is with has drones, so you can take away those, upgrade one team to Fireknifes and give both Team Leaders 2 Gun/Shield Drones (I always use Gun Drones on Crisis Teams, broadsides however are totally worth the shield drones).

As for the Broadsides, ASS is generally the way to go, altough TAs are a soild choice for them, as long as you are not playing DoW.

With those changes you should have some points left to spare. I'd include some pathfinders (and transfer one of the fishes to them from the FW).

HQ
Tau Sha'el with Plasma rifle ,Missile pod , Hardwired Multitracker ,Hardwired Target lock and Positional Relay

Elites

Tau Battle suit team
(X3) Plasma rifle , Missile pod and Multitracker
leader with Hardwired Drone Controller and 2 Gun drones

(X3) TL Missile pod and Targeting Array
leader with Hardwired Drone Controller and 2 Gun drones


Troops

(X2) 6 man Fire warrior Team
Devilfish with Disruption Pod

Fast attak
(X6) Pathfinders Devilfish with Disruption pod and Targeting Array

Heavy Support

Hammerhead with Railgun, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array (comes as standard), Multitracker, Disruption Pod and Flechette Discharger

Hammerhead with Railgun, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array (comes as standard), Multitracker, Disruption Pod and Flechette Discharger

2 Man Broadside Team with ASS
Leader, Hardwired Drone Controller with 2 shield Drones

Edited to reflect the further advice i have been given

still new so is this legal?

Looks legal and pretty solid now. You don't need the Devilfish on the pathfinders and on the FW teams. Dump the DF on the FW teams and let them ride in the PFs DFs. That frees up enough points to get some Piranhas which are great for objective grabbing, tank hunting, charge blocking and generally being a nuisance.

Also I don't think the Target lock is particularly worth it on the commander as he's just another fireknife so can fire at what the rest of the unit is. Swap out the Plasma for an AFP and suddenly him having a target lock makes sense and you get the only ignores cover weapon in the Codex (excluding flamers). It also means if you come up against Green Tide or Nid swarm you've got 3 large blast templates to mow them down. Otherwise you are a little light on horde control.

but that would put 2 FW squads in 1 DF is that legal?

No it isn't sorry reading fail on my part thought it was 2 pathfinders squads...

You can still drop one of the FW DFs though and get 1 Piranha. Which can still be a godsend for late game objective contesting as it can move 24".

Thus in reserve you'd have:

PathFinder Devilfish

Fire Warrior squad

Fire Warrior squad in Devilfish

Piranha

Turn 2 bring in PF DF. Turn 3 bring in FW squad. Then depending on how the game is going the Piranaha, or FWs in DF or both come on turn 4 for objective grabbing. Or plow those points into more battle suits, but youu'd only get 1 more whic I don't think would do as much for you as a Piranha could.

Ok here is the list ,this is going to take me a fare while to assemble due to money and time so i cant keep changing it

thanks for all the advice

They will bring out a new Codex just to mess me about before i ever get this on the table LOL.


HQ
Tau Sha'el with Airbursting Fragmention Projector ,Missile pod , Hardwired Multitracker ,Hardwired Target lock and Positional Relay

Elites

Tau Battle suit team
(X3) Plasma rifle , Missile pod and Multitracker
leader with Hardwired Drone Controller and 2 Gun drones

(X3) TL Missile pod and Targeting Array
leader with Hardwired Drone Controller and 2 Gun drones


Troops

(X1) 6 man Fire warrior Team
Devilfish with Disruption Pod And Targeting Array

(X1) 6 man Fire warrior Team

Fast attack

(X6) Pathfinders Devilfish with Disruption pod and Targeting Array

(X1) Pirhana with Disdrution pods and Decoy launchers

Heavy Support

Hammerhead with Railgun, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array (comes as standard), Multitracker, Disruption Pod and Flechette Discharger

Hammerhead with Railgun, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array (comes as standard), Multitracker, Disruption Pod and Flechette Discharger

2 Man Broadside Team with ASS
Leader, Hardwired Drone Controller with 2 shield Drones

Dump the decoy launchers on the Piranha for a fusion blaster otherwise I'd say it looks pretty solid and should gain you a decent amount of success.

Just my two cents:

Your suits are pretty good. Plasma/Missile/Multi suits will destroy marines, and they are my favorite variant.

TL Missile/TA are ok-ish, but I prefer the Plasma/Missile/Multi.

I would take the gun drones of your units, they have a completely different purpose than what your suits are kitted out to do, especially the TL Missile Pods Suits, who use long range and the gun drones have short range.

I wouldn't put Smart Missile Systems on your hammerhead, rather I would do Burst Cannons on both. Burst Cannons will give you two more shots and ten more points to spend for each hammerhead, at the expense of 6" range and a ok-ish special rule, but it is totally worth it.

If you clear all that up, you should get about 60 points which you could invest in another piranha.

The Bringer wrote:Just my two cents:

Your suits are pretty good. Plasma/Missile/Multi suits will destroy marines, and they are my favorite variant.

TL Missile/TA are ok-ish, but I prefer the Plasma/Missile/Multi.

I would take the gun drones of your units, they have a completely different purpose than what your suits are kitted out to do, especially the TL Missile Pods Suits, who use long range and the gun drones have short range.

I wouldn't put Smart Missile Systems on your hammerhead, rather I would do Burst Cannons on both. Burst Cannons will give you two more shots and ten more points to spend for each hammerhead, at the expense of 6" range and a ok-ish special rule, but it is totally worth it.

If you clear all that up, you should get about 60 points which you could invest in another piranha.

The Drones are there for taking the odd S8+ hit to prevent instant death on the suits, not for shooting (which they don´t do very well anyways). Keep them in cover and ther are as good as Shield Drones for 10 Points less. They are a cheap way to make your suits more able to take punishment and keep up their rate of fire. I say they're definately a keeper.

As for the SMS I like it more than the burstcannons, but it really is up to your own taste. My main concern for not taking burstcannon is that fast units (like fleet assaulters or jump infantry) will be in charge range of you if you use them, and to use them you have only moved 6", so you are being hit on 4+ in combat. Thats why I prefer the extra range of the SMS and the Ignore Cover rules can come in handy at times.

I do have an issue with the Targeting Arrays on the Devilfish. They aren't really worth it if you don't have them equipped with SMS as well(at which point you can go all the way and include a Multi-tracker as well). In this case Flechettes Dischargers will be more beneficial, if you don't have anything better to do with the points.

What say you snakel?

Anyways, one difference between gun drones and shield drones is not how well they take a S8 hit for the suits, but how likely it is they will survive. Your battlesuits will go through gun drones really fast, and it will impose leadership tests. Shield drones are much more likely to survive because they have an invulnerable save and they have a better armor save.

snakel wrote:They will bring out a new Codex just to mess me about before i ever get this on the table LOL.

Ha! You wish.

snakel wrote:suit(X3) Plasma rifle , Missile pod and Multitracker leader with Hardwired Drone Controller and 2 Gun drones
(X3) TL Missile pod and Targeting Array leader with Hardwired Drone Controller and 2 Gun drones

Although Warboss Tufgrim is right in that GDs are cheaper ablative wounds than SDs, those GDs are going to be a big detriment in h2h. GDs have low Toughness (okay, majority T is XV8 Toughness 3 models to 2, until a Suit or two dies, not a big deal, I suppose), but more importantly, poor ArmorSave and no Invuln; SDs will be hardier in h2h, same T and ArmorSave as the Suits + Invuln Save.

And a 5 model unit, 3 of them on 40 mm bases, has a large footprint and is far more easily caught in h2h, prolly by ~turn 3 (by a BAs or similarly mobile enemy). So, if *I* were to run a big unit like this, the SDs are worth the points. Personally though, I only run pairs of XV8s.

snakel wrote:Devilfish with Disruption Pod And Targeting Array

Why pay the points for a TA to boost 3 dice to BS4? I would buy TA with SMS and MT, but otherwise, a DisPod fish is fine, anything between is not enough, unless you go whole-hog.

snakel wrote:(X1) Pirhana with Disdrution pods and Decoy launchers

As Warboss Tufgrim stated.

snakel wrote:Hammerhead with Railgun, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array (comes as standard), Multitracker, Disruption Pod and Flechette Discharger
Hammerhead with Railgun, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array (comes as standard), Multitracker, Disruption Pod and Flechette Discharger

SMS *does* give range over the BCs' more dice, but at more cost. Eh. I've run both.

snakel wrote:2 Man Broadside Team with ASS
Leader, Hardwired Drone Controller with 2 shield Drones

Bond 'em with the points saved from the Devilfish TAs.

Thanks guys i am currently having a 1vs 1vs 1 on vassal to give thw lise a run outand from that i can tell whats ok and whats not

sheild drones seems a better choice but everything else to say i have both nids and SW after me is doing ok KP wise

we had to pause the game and reconcvene next week but i will let you know what the final list is after that taking all you advice and how the list perform in to consideration thanks