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So.. The high elfs have this splendid magic banner, which makes the unit immune to ALL magic effects. . . When do I have to reveal the effects to my opponent? Lets say he's going to cast purple sun on my unit. When do I tell him the effect? Is it only when the spell is resolved? because this is the first game effect which would have to reveal it?

I'd say at the start of the game..its extremely unfriendly to not reveal it.

Karon, do you typically play with open or closed lists? We're open lists here in Tejas, so the question never comes up, but I wonder about this for areas that play closed lists.

RZ

Karon wrote:I'd say at the start of the game..its extremely unfriendly to not reveal it.

Well, some people think it adds to the game if there are such surprises. I think it's more entertaining if there are some unknowns in an army.

To the question; if you are playing with open army lists just tell the opponent at the start, but if you've got closed lists (as in magic items and such are kept secret until used) tell him after resolving the spell.
But make sure you and your opponent are clear before the game what to keep secret and what not.

In my area the category "Magic items" are closed

nielsen333 wrote:In my area the category "Magic items" are closed

Then I'd say reveal it after the spell is resolved. Then gleefully smile and cackle like a mad scientist.

Seonnut wrote:

nielsen333 wrote:In my area the category "Magic items" are closed

Then I'd say reveal it after the spell is resolved. Then gleefully smile and cackle like a mad scientist.

Lol

Yeah, part of the trick to having closed lists is things just like this where you can trick your opponent into doing something that will turn out to be useless and make them lose their power dice or what have you.

Well since 8th edition did away with the "closed" list rule we use open lists here (for tournaments anyhow) except you dont have to declare things that specifically say may be hidden (IE assassins)

I've always played under the rule that items are "closed" I had a dwarf player ask me once, which of my hero's were wearing Dragon Armor, so he could pick another one to fire his flaming cannon at.

I told him to fire the cannon, and he'll find out.

Honestly, we're here to have fun, but this is a "war game". You don't announce to your opponents in war which units are the most vulnerable to his attacks.

I thought that the presumption was that lists were closed, unless you decided otherwise?

WYSIWYG takes care of the rest .

And my understanding of closed lists was that you had to at least describe what mundane equivalents they were wearing/carrying. So in the dragon armor example, you'd have to point out which had dragon armor, but not which had Armor of Caledor (or whatever it's called) at the start.

And open vs. closed seems to be a regional thing. To my understanding, it seems to be that lists are assumed open in the US. At the very least, it's that way in Texas.

I hate the idea of open lists though. If I play orcs and gobbos it goes like this. "OK which of your units have fanatics? Well I'll just draw them out in the trees/avoid them." If I play dwarfs... "Oh, that war machine has the Rune of Immolation? Well I'll just avoid it, or attack it with something expendable..." It works for a lot of things too.."what kind of magic defense do you have? Oh, he's got a feedback scroll? Well I'll be careful with how many die I throw till that guy is dead!" Takes a lot of the challenge out of the game.

The best part of fantasy is not knowing what your foe is armed with. So much so that there are several items and spells that ALLOW you to find out! I love surprises like that and I think it adds a lot of realism to the game. In what battle ever did the generals exchange troop info as they were drawing the battle lines??

In open lists with stuff like fanatics and assassins, you just reveal that you have them, not which unit they are in.

Fanatics are a little different, cause its easy to know where they are going, but seriously, who doesnt approach a night goblin block expecting 3 of those bastages to come flying out.

ShivanAngel wrote:In open lists with stuff like fanatics and assassins, you just reveal that you have them, not which unit they are in.

Fanatics are a little different, cause its easy to know where they are going, but seriously, who doesnt approach a night goblin block expecting 3 of those bastages to come flying out.

Morons

BRB FAQ, "Q. Do I have to show my opponent my army roster at the start of a battle, or can I wait until the end of the game, which means I only need to reveal things like which magic items my characters have taken when I first use them? A. If you think this may be an issue, discuss it with your opponent before the game starts. Some players prefer full disclosure at the start of the battle, while others prefer to wait until the battle has finished before revealing their roster. It is for you and your opponent to decide which method you prefer to use."

Per the FAQ it has been left to each individual and their opponent how they conduct open or closed magic items, lists, etc. However, in my area tournaments are open. Each opponent receives a full list of their opponent. The fanatics and assassins will be listed on the army list, but they don't have to disclose which unit they are with until they use them. As of right now I prefer open lists. However, I'm not opposed to closed lists.

DarkAngelHopeful

WYSIWYG and magic items (and other hidden items) not disclosed is the standard here. You explain each units e.g. 25 SM, full command but do not ssay which magic items you have.

As noted, 8th leaves it up to the players. Which in practice means that different tournaments will run it different ways.

Warhammer does have a fairly long tradition of CLOSED lists, specifically because many magic items and some units (like fanatics, assassins, etc.) are meant to be secret. In a tournament which uses closed lists, it is usually standard practice to exchange lists AFTER the game, so you each can verify that the other person's list did indeed have all the equipment used during the game.

Some tournaments are going for open lists nowadays, often with caveats like Dark Angel Hopeful mentioned- maybe you have to list the fanatics & assassins but just write down secretly where they are. I've also seen another variant where you have two lists- one showing the army WITHOUT the secret stuff (maybe saying character A has 30pts of magic items, but not saying what),

djones520 wrote:I told him to fire the cannon, and he'll find out.

My theory exactly. I like to tell opponents, "Shoot and see if it gets hurt."