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As well all know, after the Horus Heresy Roboute Gulliman demanded that the Legions split themselves into Chapters.

The loyalist Primarchs were split with Dorn heading the "anti-split" camp... A civil war nearly took place and Dorn gave in once his ships were fired upon.

And yet Leman Russ was able to happily disregard this turn of events completely and leave his legion intact? Why on Earth did that happen? If Rowboat's camp fired upon Dorn why would they not attack Russ?

Someone please explain to me why the Wolves got away with what the Fisties couldn't?

Because Guilliman realised that Russ would kick him back to Macragge if he started anything. Or it could be that Russ wouldn't back down, and another civil war wouldn't have been beneficial.

Probably because Russ still wouldn't split and Rowboat said: "Feth it. You can burn."

Henner
short answer I dont know.
less short answer they did split and their 1 successor chapter didnt survive. if they had been reduced to something like 3000 guys in the battle for prospero, or had never been a large legion to begin with, then this may have brought them down to chapter strength. The other possibility is that it was considered best to let sleeping fenrisian wolves lie.... ie ignore the whole situation.

Statu has it pretty much nailed down. Russ would have been way to stubborn & unlike dorn will NEVER back down from a fight.

Rowboat more than likely realized there was no way to ben Russ's ear on the matter and gave up.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Statu has it pretty much nailed down. Russ would have been way to stubborn & unlike dorn will NEVER back down from a fight.

Rowboat more than likely realized there was no way to ben Russ's ear on the matter and gave up.

As much as I'd like to go along with this line of thinking, as Russ is my Primarch, it simply isn't true. As has been said, the space Wolves did have one successor chapter, the ill-fated Wolf Brothers, and as such bowed to Guillimans's ultimatum.

And yet blatantly violate the Codex today :p

well the codex is a nice idea......

really if russ decided he didnt want to follow it who was going to tell him different? mb the wolf brothers thing was a compromise agreement and everyone just let it go at that. the imperium just has too many balls in the air to worry about how russ is organizing his legion I mean chapter. then after a few centuries people cant remember it ever being any other way and they forget all about it...
AF

IMO, it's like the Wolf Brothers didn't work so Russ said eff it. I like my way. And Rowboat was apathetic to him as long as he wasn't no heretic! And so they are basically one big chapter now,

I am trying "to blow the Space Puppies into a million pieces" every saterday, but since I married the Great Nurgle its one saterday a month. These guys just keep comming back, I swrsr there like cockroaches. The harder you hit em, them more keep returning.......Ummmmm wait you were not talking to me......::walks back to my Khorne Rhino and drives off::

He may technically have made a successor but he made one while the others made many more. Also mentioned was how he now blatantly disregards it since the successor failed.

I always thought that Russ formed the wolf brothers as a compromise so that Gulliman would leave him alone. Gulliman probably knew that trying to push Russ further wouldn't have worked out well. Unlike Dorn if Russ decided to he wasn't going to follow any more orders he would have stuck by it regardless of the results so pushing him would be a stupid move.

yes exactly. you can either have russ with you slaying xenos scum by the planet-load, or against you causing one big crap storm for everyone. easy call.

As has been said by several posters(piecemeal, but I am going to say it all at once) Russ sided with Dorn in the Post heresy era, not wanting to split his legion. When Dorn relented and finally said "yes, we will split our legions"(not out of cowardice, but because he knew the imperium could not survive another civil war so soon after the first); Russ also relented. He Split a Codex-sized chapter off from the Space wolves called the Wolf Brothers; being away from Fenris and the Main Legion the Wolf Brothers succumbed more readily to the Wulfen Curse, and were disbanded. Russ used that to basically say "see Splitting us will not work out<middle finger>".

They are Allowed to continue to function well outside of the Codex Astartes to this day because the Legion(now simply called a "Chapter") continuously gets results, and have proven their Loyalty to the Imperium as a whole(Although they do not give much love to the Ecclesiarchy, or the high lords most of the time).

Cannot be arsed to pull several older editions of the SW Codex out, nor root around in all of my other 40K books, but:

While the Wolf Brothers were an ill-fated attempt at creating a SW successor chapter, I don't know of anything officially published that says that the Wolves did this to placate Rowboat Girlyman, or anyone else. This may be the case, or it may be that this was done by using the tithe of genetic material that the Space Wolves (presumably) submit, like almost every other Chapter.



It has been pointed out (in the older versions of the SW Codex, I believe, although perhaps just in White Dwarf), that the Space Wolves swore loyalty to the Emperor and Russ. The Wolves have, in the past, pointed out that these oaths of loyalty, while binding, were not transferrable to the Emperor's representatives, spokesmen, or administrators. This means that they do not, and, I believe, have not ever, acknowledged any fealty to or obligation towards the Ecclesiarchy, or the High Lords of Terra, though they can certainly choose to work in cooperation with them. In a move nicely echoing the keen distinctions of some real world oaths, the Space Wolves can maintain both their oaths and honor, and their independence.

They are not bound by the Codex Astartes because they chose not to be bound by it, as such. Gulliman could write the Codex, propose it as a guideline, and promote it all he wants. That doesn't mean that Russ was obligated to agree to it, and it doesn't imply any disloyalty to the Emperor (both in the eyes of the Space Wolves, and technically). Of course, now that thousands of years have passed, and most Chapters follow the Codex to a great deal one way or the other, it certainly makes the Wolves look deviant and unreliable, especially to those of the Imperium unaware of the "original agreement".

This is also why Great Companies can leave the Space Wolves, as well. The Wolf Lord of each company is bound by oaths to Russ and the Emperor, not by oaths to the Great Wolf himself. If a Wolf Lord believes that he could better serve Russ and the Emperor by departing, then he has broken no oath by doing so. Again, this is very foreign to the traditions of many other chapters, and, of course, foreign to the highly regimental nature of the Imperial Guard (and thus, probably sheer mutiny to the view of many people in the Imperium), but well within the traditions of the Space Wolves.

That's all to my best memory, of course.

Now, I can't really explain why no one raked Russ over the coals for this, or why it didn't result in some sort of renewed civil war, but it clearly didn't. Perhaps the fact that the Wolves only recruit from one single world has something to do with it. While other Chapters recruit from a single world (Blood Angels and Baal, etc.), their successor chapters recruit from other worlds, or from multiple worlds. If you have a Chapter, however large, that recruits from a single world, it's going to have a finite limit to it's growth, whether it follows the Codex or not.

Da Butcha has pretty much ended the issue for me

Well, I always said that the SW started buying toilette paper just once they ran out of copies of the Codex Astartes.

Now, seriously, it's also part of their idiosincracy. Ultramarines are proud Ultramarines; Salamanders are proud Salamanders; Space Wolves are proud Fenrisians.

Because they knew they would be in for a 'ruff' time if they did.

Bonegrinder wrote:Because they knew they would be in for a 'ruff' time if they did.

That was just terrible. Take a bow. Wow.

groan

Da Butcha wrote:

Spoiler:

Given the hints dropped in Thousand Sons that the genetically altered people of Fenris are part of the key to stabilizing the Canis Helix, this would even make sense. Someone tried to use Space Wolf geneseed on humans without the modifications of those on Fenris, and this resulted in a dramatically unstabilized genetic strain. This is, of course, pure speculation, but consistent with "known" facts.

It has been pointed out (in the older versions of the SW Codex, I believe, although perhaps just in White Dwarf), that the Space Wolves swore loyalty to the Emperor and Russ. The Wolves have, in the past, pointed out that these oaths of loyalty, while binding, were not transferrable to the Emperor's representatives, spokesmen, or administrators. This means that they do not, and, I believe, have not ever, acknowledged any fealty to or obligation towards the Ecclesiarchy, or the High Lords of Terra, though they can certainly choose to work in cooperation with them. In a move nicely echoing the keen distinctions of some real world oaths, the Space Wolves can maintain both their oaths and honor, and their independence.

They are not bound by the Codex Astartes because they chose not to be bound by it, as such. Gulliman could write the Codex, propose it as a guideline, and promote it all he wants. That doesn't mean that Russ was obligated to agree to it, and it doesn't imply any disloyalty to the Emperor (both in the eyes of the Space Wolves, and technically). Of course, now that thousands of years have passed, and most Chapters follow the Codex to a great deal one way or the other, it certainly makes the Wolves look deviant and unreliable, especially to those of the Imperium unaware of the "original agreement".

If this part in the Spoiler section is true... then how did the Emperor raise a Legion from Terra, without the Fenrisian people?

IIRC the Curse of the Wulfen wasn't that big a deal before Russ was found

Russ is about as Reasonable as an Iceberg. It won't deviate from the course its following, its big and cold and you would come off worse if you hit it. Bottomline Roboute really didn't want to annoy the Galaxy's No1 kick ass chapter, it would spell disaster plus even in a well ordered galaxy you will need crazed shock troops and they may as well be on your side. Comparing the Fists with the Wolves well, its like comparing a Hammer with a Chainsaw. Both are different tools for different things, one hammers away relentlessly the other makes a mess of what ever it touches.

I like to think they chose the 1000 or so most badass marines and the others all went out on big crusades until they were severly under-strength, in which case they came back, or dead. Or maybe a lot of them died during the heresy not just at prospero but other places as well.

mwnciboo wrote:Russ is about as Reasonable as an Iceberg. It won't deviate from the course its following, its big and cold and you would come off worse if you hit it.quote] Does that mean he's also bigger down below (yeah i know a c**k joke how mature)