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The most recent discussion about Tau drones and flying bases has also raised another question for me.

Valkyries. Valkyries have that huge flying base with them, which yes, I can see for the purpose of movement that it would be required when it moves, however, the Valkyrie model does have landing gear on it (no rules of course). Can a Valkyrie "land", and as long as it remains stationary, be taken off the base? Or does that fall under the "modifying models = no-no/MUST be on the base it came with" rule?

I am pretty sure that no it can not.

There are no rules allowing you to remove it from its base.

insaniak wrote:There are no rules allowing you to remove it from its base.

Indeed. In fact, you MUST Glue it to the base, as per Page 3 of the BRB.

This means you can never remove it from the base, since the only time you are given permission to do so is when it becomes immoblised, but only "if possible", which if you followed the rules, it isn't.

The Tau actually have "landing gears" listed as equipment for their transports so the lack of such note on the Valk would point to 'no'.

Gwar! wrote:

insaniak wrote:There are no rules allowing you to remove it from its base.

Indeed. In fact, you MUST Glue it to the base, as per Page 3 of the BRB.

This means you can never remove it from the base, since the only time you are given permission to do so is when it becomes immoblised, but only "if possible", which if you followed the rules, it isn't.

What about the ball and socket joint bases that came with the Land Speeders? GW can suck it if they want me to glue those...also I use those for all my Tau vehicles .

Rules say you must glue them. The flight stems are intrinsically part of the base.

zeshin wrote:The Tau actually have "landing gears" listed as equipment for their transports so the lack of such note on the Valk would point to 'no'.

Gwar! wrote:

insaniak wrote:There are no rules allowing you to remove it from its base.

Indeed. In fact, you MUST Glue it to the base, as per Page 3 of the BRB.

This means you can never remove it from the base, since the only time you are given permission to do so is when it becomes immoblised, but only "if possible", which if you followed the rules, it isn't.

What about the ball and socket joint bases that came with the Land Speeders? GW can suck it if they want me to glue those...also I use those for all my Tau vehicles .

Summary... Valkyrie cannot land by their own means.

On the other hand I do have an issue with you must glue your flying base, I hope this was a joke, as skimmer craft can end up "landed" on a immobilized result. Unless you want you skimmers to always have "control issues with functioning anti grav" instead. Also gluing a Valkyrie onto its base suddenly turns it into the scariest item I can think of to move. I've personally made my Valkyrie detachable for the purpose of immobilized and transportation. pg.71 BRB, if possible you can remove the flying stand on immobilized or wrecked skimmers, otherwise they count as "floating wrecks" etc.

Draggoon wrote:

zeshin wrote:The Tau actually have "landing gears" listed as equipment for their transports so the lack of such note on the Valk would point to 'no'.

Gwar! wrote:

insaniak wrote:There are no rules allowing you to remove it from its base.

Indeed. In fact, you MUST Glue it to the base, as per Page 3 of the BRB.

This means you can never remove it from the base, since the only time you are given permission to do so is when it becomes immoblised, but only "if possible", which if you followed the rules, it isn't.

What about the ball and socket joint bases that came with the Land Speeders? GW can suck it if they want me to glue those...also I use those for all my Tau vehicles .

Summary... Valkyrie cannot land by their own means.

On the other hand I do have an issue with you must glue your flying base, I hope this was a joke, as skimmer craft can end up "landed" on a immobilized result. Unless you want you skimmers to always have "control issues with functioning anti grav" instead. Also gluing a Valkyrie onto its base suddenly turns it into the scariest item I can think of to move. I've personally made my Valkyrie detachable for the purpose of immobilized and transportation. pg.71 BRB, if possible you can remove the flying stand on immobilized or wrecked skimmers, otherwise they count as "floating wrecks" etc.

your allowed to leave skimmers on the base for immoblized results.so it does not have to detach from the base

I have never encountered anyone who has demanded that my Valk be glued to it's base. If some sleazebag actually tried to throw the "it must be glued to the base" rule at me I would pack up my models give him a handshake and never play that person again. If a TO insisted upon it I would never visit the establishment that utilized such an individual again. Furthermore all these rules lawyers and RAW lovers ignore something that is always on the first few pages of every GW rulebook I have ever seen. That the main goal is to have fun. Being a rules lawyer = a non-fun type person and I can exercise my right to not play with these type people, and I do so.

Draggoon wrote:Summary... Valkyrie cannot land by their own means.

On the other hand I do have an issue with you must glue your flying base, I hope this was a joke, as skimmer craft can end up "landed" on a immobilized result. Unless you want you skimmers to always have "control issues with functioning anti grav" instead. Also gluing a Valkyrie onto its base suddenly turns it into the scariest item I can think of to move. I've personally made my Valkyrie detachable for the purpose of immobilized and transportation. pg.71 BRB, if possible you can remove the flying stand on immobilized or wrecked skimmers, otherwise they count as "floating wrecks" etc.

The key term here is if possible.

If you followed the rules on page 3, it is not possible, so it will never be removed.
If you didn't follow the rules on page 3...

Gwar! wrote:

Draggoon wrote:Summary... Valkyrie cannot land by their own means.

On the other hand I do have an issue with you must glue your flying base, I hope this was a joke, as skimmer craft can end up "landed" on a immobilized result. Unless you want you skimmers to always have "control issues with functioning anti grav" instead. Also gluing a Valkyrie onto its base suddenly turns it into the scariest item I can think of to move. I've personally made my Valkyrie detachable for the purpose of immobilized and transportation. pg.71 BRB, if possible you can remove the flying stand on immobilized or wrecked skimmers, otherwise they count as "floating wrecks" etc.

The key term here is if possible.

If you followed the rules on page 3, it is not possible, so it will never be removed.
If you didn't follow the rules on page 3...

ok... I'll see that and raise you a Pg. 2 Grey Box Paragraph 3, bullet point 1.

bigyounk wrote: Furthermore all these rules lawyers and RAW lovers ignore something that is always on the first few pages of every GW rulebook I have ever seen. That the main goal is to have fun. Being a rules lawyer = a non-fun type person and I can exercise my right to not play with these type people, and I do so.

woooo you tell em i agree with you much on that, my local gaming club lives by that rule.

I find it fun to play by the rules. Why should my idea of fun be any lest important than yours?

Gwar! wrote:I find it fun to play by the rules. Why should my idea of fun be any lest important than yours?

Because to some people, playing by the rules isn't fun.

Also, there is a difference between a rules lawyer and someone playing by the rules. So be careful of throwing that claim around.

There is letter of the law (rules lawyers) and spirit of the law (everyone else). I play by the rules and understand that sometimes there will be a conflict between two or more interpretations of the said rules. I tend to take a look from all points of contention and try to come to a reasonable conclusion. If all else fails a D6 roll off can fill in 99.999% of all gray area questions. If by interpreting the rules a different way then you do makes you get all bent out of shape and forces you to start quoting from every source you can find to prove you are without question absolutely 100% correct is fun to you I, as stated before, do not have to play you. Also the other side is true, if by playing someone who differs from your opinion is not fun then by all means exercise your right and don't play them. To the stated point of this thread, yes by the rules he has to glue his Valk to the base. However this is a logistical nightmare when it come to moving the model and is also just down right inconvenient. It is in no way comparable to mounting a gaunt, space marine or any other mini to its base. And an individual who demands such things is inconsiderate and only cares about his/her self. And btw I love to play in tournaments and have played (and placed) in many all over the US and overseas and I have never encountered a person (player or TO) who expected a valk, falcon, land speeder and so on to be glued to it's base.

Actually, its quite possible to glue a model to a base and then remove it from the base. Its fairly certain that most of us have had models that we have glued later detach in whole or in part at some junction where they have been glued. So as long as the model has been glued to the stand we are fine, the rules are met. If later the model should be removed from the stand we are again fine, the rules are met. There is no rule stating that the models must REMAIN on their stand

We actually did have a guy at the lfgs who liked to go over the top on rules when the game wasnt going his way, so yes I did one week set him up on this one. Use a little touch of the product called rubber cement and you are all set, this glue never completely sets so it is easy to remove models from their base even tho they are in fact glued to their base. Yes, it did involve a wager and yes he did pay up. And one can then fully follow the rules, including the very vehement rule that says it should be removed if possible. With enough leverage it should always be possible to remove the base, albeit the stand may then be in several pieces....


Sliggoth

How about we leave the ridiculous glue argument at the door.

The basing rules at the front of the rulebook are intended to explain that if the model comes with a base, it should be fielded on it.

In practice, nobody is going to care if the model is actually glued to it, and the combination of ease of transport and the skimmer rules suggesting that removing the flight stand should in some cases (as in, if you haven't glued it on) result in a lot of people (from my experience, most) not gluing skimmers to their bases.


The issue here was simply to do with choosing to remove the base during the game where the rules don't explicitly allow it.

Proposed rule: the valk can choose to land in the movement phase as long as it can physically fit on the ground, but obviously it won't be able to shoot at anything.

Variant rule: the valkyrie must land in order to load troops.

In most friendly games you could probably house rule it.

That's all I'll add since I think the thread had more than answered the RAW question.

"Can people ignore the rules and play a different game" was not the OP question.

"What house rules do people think should apply to xxx" was not either.

By the rules can you take the Valk off its base?

No. You cannot.

Can you ignore any rule that your opponent agrees to ignore?

Yes--even in a tourney, so far as I have seen or read.

Should you assume that your opponent SHOULD ignore rules you personally think are wrong (RAW, WAAC, beardiness)--despite your opponent being 100% correct as the actual rules read?

No--that would make you the problem.

Why insist on playing 40k, then get upset that your opponent wants to follow the rules? Or more insulting yet--follow too many of the rules?

Gwar! thats a tad rules lawyer, while I agree 100% they should ALWAYS be on their base, unless immobilised, I would never EVER ask an opponent to glue their valkyrie to their base, transportation would be horrible.

But I do acknowledge the fact that you are more stating rules as written rather than what MUST be done.

My valkyrie simpley detaches from its base, although the flying stand is glued to the base. Never have I removed the base during a game (its never been immobilised or destroyed)

EDIT: When I say destroyed I mean wrecked, its been asploded.

I'm pretty sure "landed" isn't meant to be a modeled state. Kind of like wargear for the vehicle. I believe something counts as landed but must still be attached to it's flying base if possible (at all times).