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Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

So, after endlessly reading the whining about "Ohmygod, the Necrons would never ally with the Blood Angels and they wouldn't either! BREAKING CANON! BREAKING CANON!", I've opted to make this thread.

I'm going to explain something here. It's going to be lengthy, and it's going to be kinda boring, but here it goes.

The more tactically inclined Forces of Order? Space Marines(barring the Black Templar and Dark Angels, due to them being incredibly insular), Eldar, Imperial Guard, and the Tau?
They have no problems working with, or flatout ignoring, each other when pursuing their own goals. If their goals happen to coincide?
Congratulations! You've got an alliance of convenience!

There is three canon bits from the 13th Black Crusade's background where this shows up, and they even include the Necrons no less!
1) An Imperial Guard Armored Regiment,which is fighting a delaying action against a mutant horde supported by a Chaos Warhound Titan to allow Cadian High Command to evacuate the complex they're at, is aided by a Necron Phalanx that just...appears outside of the Cadian High Command fortified complex. Rather than blasting the Necrons apart, or the Necrons assaulting the Imperial Armour...they punch a hole through the mutants allowing for the armor to cripple and destroy the Warhound. All without ever engaging the Imperial forces! OMG!
Years before Matt Ward's Blood Angels codex introduces the Necrons as a nonantagonistic force towards the Imperium!
2) Suspected to be the same Phalanx, it appears in the midst of a huge mass of captured Imperial Basilisks, Medusa Siege Guns, etc that the Volscani renegades were using and hauling ass towards the Cadian Pylons and a Cadian marshaling yard for surviving Shock Troop Regiments in the southern hemisphere.
Guess what happens to the renegades?
That's right. The Necrons butchered them, then left without ever engaging the Imperial forces. Almost like they don't engage Imperial forces, unless they've got a reason to...
3) Third instance was a bit of a weird one, as it was a Necron Tomb Ship that engaged a pair of Chaos cruisers out towards what's left of Caliban, then left before ever engaging or being engaged by Imperial forces.

Then we've got other instances that have cropped up, where the Space Wolves have fought alongside the Eldar to close a Webway Portal before the Thousand Sons(and their accompanying Cultist Covens) can breach it and gain access to the Webway or the Ultramarines(being led by Marneus Calgar, not any of his underlings or some lesser known individual...but Calgar himself) and two of their Successor Chapters allying themselves with a Tau Cadre on a planet in the Eastern Fringe to stave off a Tyranid Splinter Fleet from breaching the sector.
When that fails: Calgar lets them evacuate an entire Cadre's survivors(we're talking thousands of Tau and auxiliaries here) before committing the planet to Exterminatus.

Ward's Blood Angels is not the first time, nor the last time, this will happen.
   
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bellingham

Very infomative thanks for the share.

1950 3385 pt 1300  
   
Made in de
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander






germany,bavaria

Wasn't boring.

Just why do we need a reminder of Necrons following orders and those orders not including mindless slaughter of the 'human ressource',
instead Necrons opposing chaos ( common enemy of their Ctan masters ), nids ( predator trying to steal their 'ressources' ), and
maybe Eldar and ork too ( the servants of the old ones ).

Maybe 'friend - foe recognotion' is a bit off sometimes at dakka, as joining the whining bunch seems a most favorable option to many.


Target locked,ready to fire



In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.

H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

1hadhq wrote:Wasn't boring.

Just why do we need a reminder of Necrons following orders and those orders not including mindless slaughter of the 'human resource',
instead Necrons opposing chaos ( common enemy of their C'tan masters ), nids ( predator trying to steal their 'resources' ), and
maybe Eldar and ork too ( the servants of the old ones ).

Maybe 'friend - foe recognition' is a bit off sometimes at dakka, as joining the whining bunch seems a most favorable option to many.


I think the problem is simply this:
People like to think of Necrons as "evil".
They're not, not really at least. They're not good, they're not evil, they're not anything other than opposed to the Warp and the Ruinous Powers.

They're like the Tyranids in that regard, but with the difference that Tyranids are far more concerned with devouring any and all resources on a planet.
   
Made in gb
Screaming Banshee






Cardiff, United Kingdom

Okay, so gimme a reason for my Space Marines to ally with the 'Nids or fight against the Sisters of Battle

   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Allying with 'Nids will never happen.

Ever. You can't ally with a mindless beast, or do anything more than dangle bait in front of them.

Fighting against Sisters of Battle is easy though. The Sisters think your Chapter is a band of heretics, or the Sisters are under a daemonic influence.
   
Made in de
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander






germany,bavaria

Henners91 wrote:Okay, so gimme a reason for my Space Marines to ally with the 'Nids or fight against the Sisters of Battle


Aren't nids excluded from any ally matrix?

Sisters are easy, just ask Melissia..

Target locked,ready to fire



In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.

H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
.







If your Marines are Flesh Tearers (my new faves!), the reasoning in easy!
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






The Thirteenth Black Crusade Fluff is very easily explainable: On Cadia are Many "Pylons" of unknown origin(Thought to be Necron Counter-Psychic/Chaos Pylons), this is why the Warp at the Eye of Terror is so (relatively) Calm. The people of Cadia Are effectively the "stewards" of these pylons and the fact that the Necrons have not launched a full scale invasion of Cadia indicates that they are relatively "happy" with Man-kind guarding the pylons(at least for now). The Events you detailed all concerned the defense of the Pylons, or their current "stewards"(The pylons are not just on Cadia but several planets in the cadian sector)

The Eldar/Space Wolves team-up makes perfect sense since they are battleing together against a common foe(The Space Wolves still believe it is their sole duty to destroy the thousand sons; and the Eldar would be quite desperate to halt any thousand sons attempt to get inside the webway, and by extension the Black Library).

the Ultramarine/Tau team-up; and allowance of evacuation is due to the ultramarines being on planet to negotiate sovereignty and control of the disputed planet(Yes Marines do negotiate with Xenos), that was when the Splinter Fleet arrived and as the 2 forces where already in a mutually peaceful state(or at least were not about to commit to war anyways), recognized a serious threat(Ultramarines are very aware of the strength of tyranids) and decided it would be beneficial to combat that threat together. Allowing the Cadre to evacuate before exterminatus is both good politics(something the Lord of Ultramar knows about), and was effectively earned by the tau warriors in the defense of the Planet.

This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
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Nids would ally Sisters of Battle, because the Tyranid army isn't really Tyranids, they're a population of Humans that fight similarly to them, coaxing robotic beasts into battle (carnifexs) and being lead by generals in armored suits (Hive Tyranids, Tyranids Warriors, Tyranid Prime)

Or else maybe they're just some kind of alien race that for some reason the Witch Hunters didn't purge...

 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

We're talking canon Tyranids, not some counts as monstrosity.

Actual Tyranids are left out of the "Allies" matrix, simply because they're uncaring, mindless beasts driven by an alien intelligence to devour all life and material they come into contact with.

There's no reasoning with that, nor allying with it. The only option to "direct" such a thing is like what the Imperium did with the Octavius system:

Start the Tyrannic vanguard beasts/Genestealer broods to start broadcasting psychic "COME GET DINNER HERE" signals from where you want them to go.
   
Made in au
Sister Oh-So Repentia





Somewhere south of the equator

Do people really need to think all that hard about why the Sisters of Battle of all armies would fight anyone?

Here you guys go, Taken from their codex.

Attachments removed by moderator. Please do not post entire pages taken from GW material. The WH codex is available for download from GW's website for those who want it.
[edit] To the Mod who removed the two pages, the book itself is out of print and the version that is on the net does not have the two pages in question included in it. I assumed that this would've been alright to post considering I have seen copies of 2nd ed material posted up before.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2010/09/01 08:46:58


Battle sister of the Order of Lonely Hearts looking for a righteous marine to share crusade with.
Must love pray, fasting, ritualistic flagellation and Promethium. 
   
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Henners91 wrote:Okay, so gimme a reason for my Space Marines to ally with the 'Nids or fight against the Sisters of Battle


The Space Marine Captain and the Hive Tyrant met Melissia on a 40k forum and banded together for mutual survival.

DA:70+S--G-M+B++I+Pw40k09++DA+/hWD-R-T(BG)DM+  
   
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Mesopotamia. The Kingdom Where we Secretly Reign.

We always explain the Tyranids being in our mega-battles as a "the enemy that wants to eat my enemy is my friend."

Same for Necrons. With the newer Necron fluff they don't really seem like they think all that much outside of their programming, so if they were attacking something and there were other forces there attacking the same target that weren't bothering them they might not even notice them, outside of taking stock of what they were doing to their common enemy.

People just like to bitch.

rabidaskal wrote:
Henners91 wrote:Okay, so gimme a reason for my Space Marines to ally with the 'Nids or fight against the Sisters of Battle


The Space Marine Captain and the Hive Tyrant met Melissia on a 40k forum and banded together for mutual survival.


Oh come on now. She's not even here!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/01 05:58:43


Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
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Haters gon' hate. 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






Henners91 wrote:Okay, so gimme a reason for my Space Marines to ally with the 'Nids or fight against the Sisters of Battle


OR people he said OR not and.

Kanwulen is the only person who seems to have recognized this.

This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
Made in au
Sister Oh-So Repentia





Somewhere south of the equator

There is also Space Wolves.
In their latest dex, the Ecclesiarchy sends a priestly envoy to Fenris to investigate rumours of heresy.

They were shot down before they even made planet fall.

Sisters are sent to get an explanation for what happened and they get attacked also.

Several weeks of fighting later the Sisters are forced to evacuate and nothing comes about from it.

I'm hoping that in the new Sisters of Battle codex (If it ever eventuates) there is something about the Ecclesiarchy gearing up for a full war against the Wolves or even that the wolves have lost a large amount of support within the Imperium itself for their actions.

Battle sister of the Order of Lonely Hearts looking for a righteous marine to share crusade with.
Must love pray, fasting, ritualistic flagellation and Promethium. 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

The problem is that it's also the more radical elements of the Ecclesiarchy and Ordo Hereticus that go after the Astartes Chapters.

It kind of negates your stance of "Look sir, heresy!" when you've got Daemon weapons, Xenos tech, etc.
   
Made in us
Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch






What I don't understand is why people look past the fact that Necrons even have a special rule in-game that if a certain percentage of their army is destroyed they leave the battle. It's called 'Phase Out'.

Why then is it so hard to think that the Tyranids managed to reduce the Necrons below fighting strength and they then phased out?

I don't think the Blood Angels wasted any bolter rounds saving Necrons from the Tyranids, and vice versa.

And, because we all know you can't shoot into or out of close combat, even if the necrons and BA wanted to fight each other, they couldn't.
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






Extinction Angel wrote:What I don't understand is why people look past the fact that Necrons even have a special rule in-game that if a certain percentage of their army is destroyed they leave the battle. It's called 'Phase Out'.

Why then is it so hard to think that the Tyranids managed to reduce the Necrons below fighting strength and they then phased out?

I don't think the Blood Angels wasted any bolter rounds saving Necrons from the Tyranids, and vice versa.

And, because we all know you can't shoot into or out of close combat, even if the necrons and BA wanted to fight each other, they couldn't.


Because the fluff for Phase out also says that the necrons "will disappear in an eerie fashion, leaving behind nothing of its presence." I figure that is generally a mass teleportation, and probably a flash of green light; at any rate the second half is very important: no Necron bodies are left behind; something "eerie" happens and then it was like they were never there to begin with(excepting of course the opponents dead and wounded)

The blood Angels fluff has the necrons walking away and leaving their fallen behind(although I suppose parting amicably with the blood angels could be considered "eerie" )

This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
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Drop Trooper with Demo Charge




Louisville, KY

Kanluwen wrote:We're talking canon Tyranids, not some counts as monstrosity.

Actual Tyranids are left out of the "Allies" matrix, simply because they're uncaring, mindless beasts driven by an alien intelligence to devour all life and material they come into contact with.

There's no reasoning with that, nor allying with it. The only option to "direct" such a thing is like what the Imperium did with the Octavius system:

Start the Tyrannic vanguard beasts/Genestealer broods to start broadcasting psychic "COME GET DINNER HERE" signals from where you want them to go.



Wait, so after the Imperium planted the psi-emitters, did the Emperor leave Sarah Kerrigan on the planet to make sure it worked?



Monster Rain wrote:We always explain the Tyranids being in our mega-battles as a "the enemy that wants to eat my enemy is my friend."

Same for Necrons. With the newer Necron fluff they don't really seem like they think all that much outside of their programming, so if they were attacking something and there were other forces there attacking the same target that weren't bothering them they might not even notice them, outside of taking stock of what they were doing to their common enemy.

People just like to bitch.

rabidaskal wrote:
Henners91 wrote:Okay, so gimme a reason for my Space Marines to ally with the 'Nids or fight against the Sisters of Battle


The Space Marine Captain and the Hive Tyrant met Melissia on a 40k forum and banded together for mutual survival.


Oh come on now. She's not even here!


Necrons aren't robots! I don't think it's "programming" so much as "the only thing they seem to know how to do".
Which is why I somewhat disagree with the OP- since *most* Necron fluffiness seems to have them trying to destroy all life, I can certainly see why it would confuse people when they suddenly don't seem to want to do this. Unless they somehow know that waiting for a bit would let them kill more living things.
But, as I've stated before: it's a big damn galaxy. Lots of things could happen at least once.

And Melissia is still one of my favorite people here xD

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/03 05:53:07


Hi there, I'm an hole! =D

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Yay for Mech IG with Daemonhunter and kroot allies! Planning on 5000+ pts very soon! 
   
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Dayton OH

There is also an old bit of fluff in the Imperial Guard about Tallarns cooperating with Eldar. It seems Tallarn was an Eldar Maiden world before that nasty virus bombing incident (thanks Iron Warriors). Buried on Tallarn was an ancient Eldar warp portal, and as human miners bagan to dig closer to the portal Eldrad Ulthran's spider senses started to tingle on Ulthwe.
Not being in the habit of reasoning with Monkeigh vermin the Eldar just attacked Tallarn hoping to kill all of the meddling humans before they could upset anything. Unfortunately all of that blood and killing activated the old portal wouldn't you know, and out come demons after demons.
The Eldar and the Tallarns had a shared "Oh crap" moment and decided they would rather use their guns on all of the nasty things that were trying to eat them. Big battle, portal destroyed, Eldar go home.
I think it was suggested that the two forces may have helped one another out a few times after that as well.

For the Emperor! Kill Maim Burn!... I mean purge the unclean!  
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

Indeed.

And recent WD has mentioned Eldar and Dark Eldar fighting together against daemons, and going further back to first edition there was a short story about some marines fight orks. who then propose an alliance when a Tyranid fleet arrives unexpectedly. They do so and kill the Tyranids..

..and the marines are then somewhat surprised that the orks then want to carry on the their scrap where they left it.

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
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Desperado Corp.

Just stop and think about the game we're playing here. Anything is possible (potentially), so alliances against a common foe, attacks that happen to coincide and unlikely alliances are all possible. Seriously, just go with the "same time, same place" option. As for the "You cannot talk to 'nids" theory, I believe there are examples of the hive mind communicating with other races. I would assume that any race with psykers (sorry tau) wold be able to communicate with 'nids. Failing that, try the "COME AND EAT FOOD HERE" excuse.

Pretre: OOOOHHHHH snap. That's like driving away from hitting a pedestrian.
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Cardiff, United Kingdom

Here's a fairly typical instance of an Alliance of Convenience:



   
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Barpharanges







http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat440317a&pageMode=multi&categoryId=900006§ion=&pIndex=4&aId=3400063&start=5

Tyranids are there id like to point out In battles that are NOT fluff wise this would be fine screw the fluff !

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Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos






Grim Forgotten Nihilist Forest.

If I recall correctly on the Apoc ally charts. Dark Eldar were cool with everyone.

Perhaps they are going to be the mercenary race for 40k?

I've sold so many armies. :(
Aeldari 3kpts
Slaves to Darkness.3k
Word Bearers 2500k
Daemons of Chaos

 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Dark Eldar fall under the second category: "The two armies distrust one another, would only fight together against a common and hated foe, or they are simply both attacking at the same place and same time. You should probably think of a reason why they are allied"--at least with all non-Imperial forces and non-Tyranids.

They're hated enemies with those two.

In pretty much all occasions, just go with the third option. The other two are kinda rare.
   
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Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander






germany,bavaria

Shadowbrand wrote:If I recall correctly on the Apoc ally charts. Dark Eldar were cool with everyone.

Perhaps they are going to be the mercenary race for 40k?


Correctly in the Apoc ally chart at p98 DE are 'not cool' with 4 armies, plus were the only ones distrusting their own faction......

Sounds like DE are the single 'has no natural ally' part of this chart.

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In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.

H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
 
   
Made in ca
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos






Grim Forgotten Nihilist Forest.

Right. Because the individual Kabals and gangs would fight.

My bad.

I've sold so many armies. :(
Aeldari 3kpts
Slaves to Darkness.3k
Word Bearers 2500k
Daemons of Chaos

 
   
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United States

@ OP: tthanks for the info! i really hopethe BA vs. Necrons fluff ends up going somewhere in the next army books

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