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its kinda low on troops but i was going more for an armored approach

ccs
plas pistol
3 plasma guns
medic

pcs
4 melta

troop
lascannon
chimera

troop
lascannon
chimera

troop
lascannon
chimera

heavy weapon team
2 lascannon
1 missile launcher

vendetta

vendetta

2 lrbt

2 demolishers
lascannons

2 basilisks

i dont play guard other than air cav really so i hvae no idea how this would work out.

Where's your second Troop choice?

umm wow i am so used to veterans, heres the real list

ccs
3 plasma guns
medic

pcs
4 melta

troop
lascannon
chimera

troop
lascannon
chimera


heavy weapon team
3missile launcher

vets
lascannon
chimera

vendetta

vendetta

2 lrbt

2 demolishers
lascannons

2 basilisks

Hmm not a whole lot of bodies. the Demo Tanks need to get up close so maybe I'll drop one of them so immobilizing wont outright kill them. swap out the lascannon infantry with autocannons. Swap the meltas in the command to flamers or grenade launchers. trade lascannon on vets for (*sigh*) meltas or give them sniper rifles. Add in some more vets/squads

if i do that id get a points savings of 210. which is not enough for two full squads of even normal infantry in chimeras, unless i want them to just have lasguns, it doesnt seem like losing the fire power of a demolisher and lascannons is worth it. and as for the junior officer squad, i am correct in the idea that i cannot issue orders to squads embarked in vehicles right? if that is the case i would rather throw them nice and close to the enemy inside of the vendetta than a vet squad that can sit cozy in its chimera with a las and plenty of red shirts and bs 4.

i may just be misssing something so please let me know if you had something different in minD

What about the vendettas? they'll just be there to use lascannons? 210 is enough for 2 squads of melta vets which are more durable than a command squad and have BS4

lets be honnest a 10 man guard squad wont stand up to a charging marine squad any better than a five man. and the vendettas are there to provide mobile reserves as they carry the plasma squad and the melta squad and then have 3 tl lascannons each

Steve Shields wrote:lets be honnest a 10 man guard squad wont stand up to a charging marine squad any better than a five man. and the vendettas are there to provide mobile reserves as they carry the plasma squad and the melta squad and then have 3 tl lascannons each

But their 3 melta guns will last a lot longer even if they lose a few guys in shooting.

I don't like it. You've basically min-maxed troops to toys. This will end poorly.

the thing is, you've spent so much on support that you don't have any points left for the things the support is supporting. Bottom-heavy lists were good for 4th ed, but not 5th. A list balancing is in order.

You spent over 900 pts on heavy support that's a no no. And only received 6 templates as a result. You can save over 300 pts by taking 2 manticores and 2 Colossus for only 600 pts. This gives 4-8 Templates a turn. Those 300 points could then be turned around to drastically improve your sub-par troops choices.

Ok so i realize that having as many non-transport tanks in that list was simply wishful thinking so here is a more realistic one, or so i hope, but it feels very generic

CCS
plas pistol
3 plasma guns
medic

2x vet squad
lascannon
chimera

3x vet squad
auto cannon
chimera

1 vet squad (vend.)
3 meltas

vendetta

vendetta

2 lrbt

2 demolishers
lascannons

It feels generic because it IS generic. That said, it's better than your first list.

It is possible to make list that are both competitive and rare to see on the field. Doing this with yet another mechvet list with a couple of russes and a couple of flyers is going to make that goal extremely difficult.

The biggest problem with IG is that to win tournaments you only have only a couple basic build you can use. And there are a couple units you need to have in the list.

Mech
Air cav
Gun line

Obviously Mech is the best. (judging form the results of every major tournament in the last 6 months). But its very expensive to build and kind of boring to play. It looks like this is what you are wanting to run. And as such (making it even more boring) you need to run vendettas, melta vets in chimeras. But every thing else can be switched out as you please. Squadrons of tanks/artillery eat up way to many points. And yes the manticore is a grate unit but so are many other heavies. I like the LR and many of its variants, my 2500 list runs one Exe and 2 manticores as heavies. Run some PBS and vendettas next to them and you have the fire power to cripple your opposition on turn one and spend the rest of the game playing cat and mouse with no chance to loose.

I like to run a bare bone PCS+2IS to sit in 3 vendettas to make them scoring units as well. Its seems like a waist of points but now the guy across the table has no choice to kill them or loose an objective last turn. This brings a little of that air cav feeling in to the list that makes it a bit more fun to play.

But this isn’t about my list its about yours, as for the last build I would pull the apart the squadrens of lemon russes. And just run 3 as single choices.

I ran a medic In my plasma CCS for a long time to. But, doesn’t really need it. The emperor doesn’t care if one of your IG pop, why should you. But in all honesty I like the 9 shots a 12 or 4 shots at 24. (and it saves 15pts)

But even is you make no more changes, I think this list would do fare paired with most other lists out there. But I can see you having a real problem if facing a top end cookie cutter list

komosunder: so mech is more or less what i have but put melta vets in the chimeras instead of the lascannons? and im not sure what you meant by pull apart the russes and use them as a choice of three?

yea, you are looking a lot like a mech list. (thats kinda what ailaros is getting at when he said its generic) your vets are far more resilient sitting in chimeras then they do dropping out of a bird.

the biggest prob with lascannons are that they are a heavy wep, I’ve seen them run inside chimeras before (and I’ve run them inside chimeras before) but that unit will not move the hole game. wasting the 3 other guys in the unit that use plas/melta. my point is if you are going to use a heavy wep make sure you have a plan for it. Not just “point an shoot”. I’m not going to open up the what’s better AC or LC argument but the same go’s for AC as well.

What I’m getting at about the Russes is that they don’t work very well in squadrons take each one as a separate Heavy choice.

I would play the 2 LRBT and fill the last heavy with a; LR EXE. But the demolishers are a good choice as well, you just need to ask your self if you want your kill zone at 24” or 36”. if you are ok with 24 go with the demos, if that’s a little to close then take the LRBT. But you really shouldn’t have more then 3 Russes in a IG list. Yes they blow crap up, but they cost a hole lot.

I’m going to get shot for saying this but most of the artillery in the codex doesn’t fit well in a standard 40k game. Most of them die way to easy and don’t have the pure fire power to back up there points. Manticores are the exception, they can flatten a unit of nobs in one round of shooting, and the only down side to them is that they can only make 4 shots. By the time you run out of ammo every thing should be dead.

when you build your IG army, you should keep in mind a standard strategy for all games. Every unit has a roll, and only one roll. Your melta vets kill heavy armor. Your vendettas kill transports and med armor, Your LRBT are there to kill troops. On and on and on. When you pick a unit ask yourself what you want it to do, then ask your self if there is some thing that works better in the codex. Example: what works better to kill med armor a vet squad with a lascannon, or a vendetta, obviously the vendetta does. So in turn use the vendetta for this. The game is min maxing.

But its late and I’m rambling ill check the thread tomorrow.

actually, tanks are more nuanced than that. Take russes if you want them to be charging up the field to screen your chimeras. Take artillery if you just want to sit back and do damage (which they do better for cheaper).

That said, the rest of the advice is sound, especially about not giving vets heavy weapons.

I like how this turned out cause i still get to put my flame squads into the vendettas

CCS
4 plasma guns
plas pistol

guardsmen marbo

vets
3 melta
chimera

vets
3 melta
chimera
vets

3 melta
chimera

vets
3 melta
chimera

vets
demolitions
heavy flamer
flamer

vets
demolitions
heavyflamer
2x flamer

vendetta

vendetta

lrbt

lrbt

lrE
plasma cannon sponsons

you're wasting 40 points on infantry heavy flamers when every one of those vehicles you're bringing gets one for free. They've GOT to go.

Specifically, if you also drop the regular flamers (and that worthless plasma pistol, you have 65 points, which is enough for 3 meltas in both squads and a meltabomb somewhere.

now heres somewhere i have to stand fast, 40 points on heavy flamers is certainly not a waste, they are a tried and true squad, and i dont think i need 6 squads of three meltas. however i do like the idea of the heavy flamers in the chimera hulls.

ill say you prob dont need 6 squads of three meltas ether. at this point level 4 is far more then enough. on top of that you can put in plasma (far more costly but a good choice as well). as for the H. flamers, im going to agree with ailaros. yes they are nice but when you have one on every transport its not needed in the squad.

i dont like demos on my vets, i just find they cost to much and i dont use it well enough to pay the 30pts. but this is my preferance. realy its not a bad upgrade, and i wont knock any one that uses it.

Steve Shields wrote:now heres somewhere i have to stand fast, 40 points on heavy flamers is certainly not a waste, they are a tried and true squad

They can hypothetically do lots of damage, sure, but at a HUGE opportunity cost. Not only are you wasting lots of points, but you're also wasting BS4.

And if you don't think you need 6 meltagun squads at this many points, clearly you're not playing against monstrous creatures or mechanized lists. In that case, switch them over to plasma.

Ailaros wrote:

And if you don't think you need 6 meltagun squads at this many points, clearly you're not playing against monstrous creatures or mechanized lists. In that case, switch them over to plasma.

there are not that many that they cant be destroyed by two vendettas and all that melta. nd i think plasma would do better against monstrous creatures anyway. i think ill change the two heavy flamer squads to plasmas though, as much as i loath to do it. all id have to do is lop off the plasma pistol on my hq