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Grail Knights: 5+ Ward, 2+ Armor, 8" Movement, S4, T3, 2 Attacks, Lances, 38 Pts
Blood Knights: 2+ Armor, 8" Movement S5, T4, 2-3 Attacks, Lances ,55 Pts
Chaos Knights: 1+ Armor, 6+ Ward, S5 Enscroled Weapons, S4, T4, 2 Attacks?, 40 Pts

My vote is for the Bretonnian Grail Knights because of the ward save and their lower cost.

My mistake on the grail knight stats, it has been fixed

Blood Knights.

They're just ridiculous, sure, the most expensive per model, but 2-3 attks at S7 is no joke.

Empire knights with great weapons there so cheap and can stick around after the 1st round of combat.

Chaos Knights are probably the best knights in the game given their ability to always be S5 and two or three attacks now that mark of khorne is no longer free points for your opponent.

They're too expensive however and therefore empire knights are probably the best since they're half the price and do the same job.

Blood Knights, followed by chaos knights

Aren't grail knights Strength 4? And Chaos Knights only have that ward if someone marks them as Tzeentch, which would bump their cost again (unless you've already factored that in). Finally, shouldn't Blood Knights be M7? Their horses are barded, right? And Chaos Knights are Str 5 if using ensorcelled weapons.

Where would black knights fit in?

Grail Knights are strength 4 T3, Immune to psychology(but most elite units are now days) with magical attacks, and a ward save (which can be easily modified to 4+ with the right gear)

And they're cheaper than blood knights or Chaos Knights.

I think they better if they get the charge off (LOT of S6 attacks) but otherwise they would lose out, also they strike before Blood Knights and simultaneously with Chaos Knights

Sorry, I made corrections.

Of our choices(in ascending order) IMHO:

Cold One Knights(Dark Elves) - Stupidity is a pain and they only have one attack each.
Empire Knights - I was going to rate these below DE CoKs, but I know they are not stupid and I'm guessing that they are much cheaper.
Cold One Knights(Lizardmen) - Pretty good, but expensive for what they can do.
Grail Knight - Seem decent, but only T3 and suffer from the "Rubber Lance" syndrome.
Blood Knight - Super killy, but expensive
Chaos Knight - Cheaper than BKs, hitty, best armor of the lot. Always magical S5 attacks at I5(this is big).

Tzeentchling9 wrote:Of our choices(in ascending order) IMHO:

Cold One Knights(Dark Elves) - Stupidity is a pain and they only have one attack each.
Empire Knights - I was going to rate these below DE CoKs, but I know they are not stupid and I'm guessing that they are much cheaper.
Cold One Knights(Lizardmen) - Pretty good, but expensive for what they can do.
Grail Knight - Seem decent, but only T3 and suffer from the "Rubber Lance" syndrome.
Blood Knight - Super killy, but expensive
Chaos Knight - Cheaper than BKs, hitty, best armor of the lot. Always magical S5 attacks at I5(this is big).

Empire knights are cheaper and S4 (Inner circle at least) and have a 1+ save, definitely better than cold ones but I'd agree that they're not as good as other races elite heavy cav

What makes Lizardmen cold one knights so good? And what about Dragon Princes?

EmilCrane wrote:What makes Lizardmen cold one knights so good?

They have 2 S4 attacks(S5 on the charge) along with Stupidty being less of an issue with Cold-Blooded. I they do have pretty poor WS and Initiative, but they also cause fear too.

And what about Dragon Princes?

Probably tied with or just under LM CoKs. They are hittyer, but way less resilient.

I'm not sure what a knight is other than it says knight in their name. But Lizardmen certainly aren't knights. If you're going cavalry, skeleton horseman (TK) and Marauder horseman (WoC) and Goblin Wolf Riders and Goblin Giant Spider Riders (O&G) are nice and dirt cheap.

Of course the skeltons can crumble and goblins suffer from animosity.

I think the empire knights with M8, WS 4, S 3 (can get strength 4 if you upgrade to inner circle), T 3, I 3, A 1, Ld 8 and a 2+ armor save (4+ for hvy armor+shield, then a barded mount) are the best knights around, sine while the chaos knights pack more of a punch, the empire knights cost less points. Add a Templar Grand Master and you also have Immune to Psychology, add Kurt Helborg to Reiksguard and they're also Stubborn.

I really don't want to consider Blood Knights since they cost the same as a battalion for five dudes on horseback, Chaos Knights cost 70$ less for 5 men, and empire knights cost 58$ less for 3 more guys.

Also, I consider Knights the heavy cavalry of any army, Orc Boar Boyz and Dragon princes should definitely be in there.

Chaos Knights.
Empire Knights have big problems fighting past the first round after charges, although they are quite cheap.
Blood Knights, while devastating, are frickin expensive, approaching 400+ pts for five models with the 4+ ward against shooting banner and FC.
Grail Knights are not much different than Chaos Knights, but Chaos Knights have more options + MoK and aren't a rare choice.
DE CoK suffer from having only 1 attack and T3 like Empire Knights, but they are better.
LM CoK fall into the same category as Grail Knights. About as good, but are left in the dust with all the WoC options.

EDIT: derp, spelling.

Empire knights are Core, and if you upgrade their strength, they become Special units. Personally, while I am admittedly biased (I play Empire after all), the fact that DE CoK have Stupidity almost ruins many strategies concerning cavalry charges, since getting the charge or hitting units in the flanks is key, if they stand still chasing a squirrel, they could get hit back, hard.

Silver helms, clearly...

/end sarcasm

blood knights

Elector wrote:I think the empire knights with M8, WS 4, S 3 (can get strength 4 if you upgrade to inner circle), T 3, I 3, A 1, Ld 8 and a 2+ armor save (4+ for hvy armor+shield, then a barded mount) are the best knights around, sine while the chaos knights pack more of a punch, the empire knights cost less points. Add a Templar Grand Master and you also have Immune to Psychology, add Kurt Helborg to Reiksguard and they're also Stubborn.

I really don't want to consider Blood Knights since they cost the same as a battalion for five dudes on horseback, Chaos Knights cost 70$ less for 5 men, and empire knights cost 58$ less for 3 more guys.

Also, I consider Knights the heavy cavalry of any army, Orc Boar Boyz and Dragon princes should definitely be in there.

Unless Empire Knights got bretonnian horses or elven steeds they're M7, and they have a 1+ armour save, but they don't really have much more going for them than that

I went for Chaos Knights because of the 1+ armor and with the mark of khorne thats 3 S5 Ws5 I5 attacks and 2 s4 Ws3 I3 attacks.

Chaos Knights. I5 really makes all the difference now. Blood Knights are good but are SO expensive and still only I4, dispite how hard they hit.

EmilCrane wrote:

Elector wrote:I think the empire knights with M8, WS 4, S 3 (can get strength 4 if you upgrade to inner circle), T 3, I 3, A 1, Ld 8 and a 2+ armor save (4+ for hvy armor+shield, then a barded mount) are the best knights around, sine while the chaos knights pack more of a punch, the empire knights cost less points. Add a Templar Grand Master and you also have Immune to Psychology, add Kurt Helborg to Reiksguard and they're also Stubborn.

I really don't want to consider Blood Knights since they cost the same as a battalion for five dudes on horseback, Chaos Knights cost 70$ less for 5 men, and empire knights cost 58$ less for 3 more guys.

Also, I consider Knights the heavy cavalry of any army, Orc Boar Boyz and Dragon princes should definitely be in there.

Unless Empire Knights got bretonnian horses or elven steeds they're M7, and they have a 1+ armour save, but they don't really have much more going for them than that

Okay my bad, since they automatically have barded horses, I thought that was factored into the Movement.

My vote is for Chaos Knights. Initiative 5 makes a huge difference and they are the only unit listed that you can grant bonuses to (using Marks) and still give a banner too. Some banners really work well with Marks. Banner of Rage and Mark of Nurgle anybody?

Although they're not as good as other listed units here, Empire knights with great weapons have WS4, S5, a 2+ save, and cost 23 points.

Being inferior (which they are) means less when I can have twice as many for the same points.

EmilCrane wrote:Unless Empire Knights got bretonnian horses or elven steeds they're M7, and they have a 1+ armour save, but they don't really have much more going for them than that

They have a 2+ save when you forgo the lance and shield for a great weapon. They actually have two big things going for them;

1. They're really cheap. Mounted chaos knights and blood knights are incredibly killy, and you can basically stick them in the middle of your army, run up the field and start stabbing the enemy to death, but you pay for it. Empire Knights are cheap, so a good sized unit won't break the bank. You can put them on a flank and position them for a well timed charge to break an enemy unit committed to fighting one of your infantry blocks.

2. The Empire have a whole lot else going for it. A strong Empire army will load up on warmachines and big blocks of infantry, more expensive knights would require taking away points from other elements of their list. Empire Knights are an excellent fit for their list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DukeRustfield wrote:I'm not sure what a knight is other than it says knight in their name. But Lizardmen certainly aren't knights. If you're going cavalry, skeleton horseman (TK) and Marauder horseman (WoC) and Goblin Wolf Riders and Goblin Giant Spider Riders (O&G) are nice and dirt cheap.

Of course the skeltons can crumble and goblins suffer from animosity.

I think people are basically using knights as shorthand for heavy cavalry. Basically whatever an army has that's got the speed of a horse, a great armour save and is really fighty. Marauders, skeleton horsemen, goblin wolf riders and spider riders would be light cavalry.

sebster wrote:

EmilCrane wrote:Unless Empire Knights got bretonnian horses or elven steeds they're M7, and they have a 1+ armour save, but they don't really have much more going for them than that

They have a 2+ save when you forgo the lance and shield for a great weapon. They actually have two big things going for them;

1. They're really cheap. Mounted chaos knights and blood knights are incredibly killy, and you can basically stick them in the middle of your army, run up the field and start stabbing the enemy to death, but you pay for it. Empire Knights are cheap, so a good sized unit won't break the bank. You can put them on a flank and position them for a well timed charge to break an enemy unit committed to fighting one of your infantry blocks.

2. The Empire have a whole lot else going for it. A strong Empire army will load up on warmachines and big blocks of infantry, more expensive knights would require taking away points from other elements of their list. Empire Knights are an excellent fit for their list.

id add a #3...

theyre core. you have to have a certain amount and if you only take infantry blocks, youre going to rapidly run out of space to deploy it all. having a fast unit you can plant on a flank so your greatswords/artillery/crossbows/swordsmen can go in the middle and not get in each others way is really good.

I agree with the above posts but we're talking about the best knights, not the ones that synergize well. The same about Empire Knights could be said for KOTR and Knights Errant (at least in 7th anyway).

I think the best three are the ones posted in the OP, and for different reasons, they're all dead killy, hard to break with hard hitting magical(I think) attacks and good defence

EmilCrane wrote:I agree with the above posts but we're talking about the best knights, not the ones that synergize well. The same about Empire Knights could be said for KOTR and Knights Errant (at least in 7th anyway).

Surely 'best' relates to the ability of a unit to help win a game?

If what we really mean is just most powerful, then we should just be talking about straight up killing potential, and ignoring how well a unit fits within it's list, it's point cost and all other considerations, yeah? Which is fine, 'what is the most powerful knight unit?' is a perfectly reasonable question, but I'm not sure it's the one we've been talking about in this thread.

sebster wrote:

EmilCrane wrote:I agree with the above posts but we're talking about the best knights, not the ones that synergize well. The same about Empire Knights could be said for KOTR and Knights Errant (at least in 7th anyway).

Surely 'best' relates to the ability of a unit to help win a game?

If what we really mean is just most powerful, then we should just be talking about straight up killing potential, and ignoring how well a unit fits within it's list, it's point cost and all other considerations, yeah? Which is fine, 'what is the most powerful knight unit?' is a perfectly reasonable question, but I'm not sure it's the one we've been talking about in this thread.

I think we have been talking about straight killing potential, otherwise KOTR are the best because you really can't win a game as Brets without them and their cost is comparable to Empire Knights, they ignore fleeing peasant units, they can form the lance, have a ward save and can give Ld8 to many of your units.

Well, speaking of the lance I would say that's its value it not what it used to be. Since ranked Cav can make Supporting attacks now all Cav units get a poorman's version of it.

EmilCrane wrote:I think we have been talking about straight killing potential,

I really don't think that's been the case.

"Empire knights with great weapons there so cheap and can stick around after the 1st round of combat."
"They're too expensive however and therefore empire knights are probably the best since they're half the price and do the same job."
"And (Grail Knights)'re cheaper than blood knights or Chaos Knights."
"Blood Knights, while devastating, are frickin expensive"
"Although they're not as good as other listed units here, Empire knights with great weapons have WS4, S5, a 2+ save, and cost 23 points. Being inferior (which they are) means less when I can have twice as many for the same points."

otherwise KOTR are the best because you really can't win a game as Brets without them and their cost is comparable to Empire Knights, they ignore fleeing peasant units, they can form the lance, have a ward save and can give Ld8 to many of your units.

It's a fair argument. With the question considered in that way we can get a lot more interesting answers than just straight damage, yeah?