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Well I know for a fact that my friend is going to be playing Imperial Guard against me, with a whole lot of plasma guns. And probably not too many tanks at all (he complains about how much they cost always)

I would love some feedback as to what CSM usually runs into problems with against the IG.

The quickest way I thought of to tailor my list to beat his was add Havok Launchers to all my Rhinos. Just because they're TL Blast weapons with ap of 5, so guards (as long as they don't have carapace armor) won't be taking any armor saves.

I also want to take three MCs + at least three Havok Launchers. Just because I know he'll have heavy weapon squads and lots of troops on foot.


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What I was really asking about is whats a decent unit to take out IG lists? I assuming a squad of Chosen with flamers or meltaguns to outflank and kill. Maybe Lesser Daemons as well?

My list involves nothing but x4 rhinos atm, 2 MCs (greater Daemons and DP), random squads of troops.

I feel as though Havoks would just be a point sink since making their points back would be hard. The Chosen sort of seems that way too.....Help Dakka?

Well if you can hide a Defiler or 2 at the table edges you'd be pouring down battle cannon fire on his army and before you know it you'll run out of targets to kill.

Vindicators are alright for that role I guess but I pick deffis so i can hide them behind large cover.

Chosen are probably a good choice. I wouldn't suggest terminators since he'll be using alot of plasma guns but if you think you can use them without them getting shot to death, then maybe go with lightning claws and a heavy flamer. I tried it against tyrannids and it worked wonderfully.

If you do use Chosen how ever be sure you don't bite off more then you could chew. If your opponent uses alot of plasma you'll lose the chosen fast. (Speaking from expierence since positioning costed me the whole squad and all I did was get blood on my opponents terminator armour)

Personally I think your best bet would be Defilers and maybe plague marines to protect them as much as possible.

If your not worried about tanks and the corresponding pie-plates of doom, then assault is where you want to be. The Rhino Rush is a classic for a reason!

A defiler decked out for ranged fire (and its a pretty good range) should do wonders too.

Consider Noise marines - high I' scores, and you can get more shots out of them whilst still assaulting.

Khorne Bezerkers in a LR could be a huge threat too - and he would need to concentrate his antitank weapons against it allowing your Rhino's to get up close.

On that - dont forget that a Rhino full of 1ksons can scoot forward 12 inches, they can all disembark another 2 inches out and you can then rapid fire (as they have slow and purposeful rule)! this gets you some serious range on their first round. Also, if you get a sorcerer in range, the Gift of chaos will create a spawn on IG 50% of the time - tying the whole unit up in combat (a great trick against heavy weapons squads) - and you dont need to cast it against the same unit you intend to shoot against (as this is not a shooting attack).

Infiltrating chosen - good, but keep them in cover - outflanking in a rhino with plasmas, flamers and a melta would give you a lot of options!

Save points by avoiding things like powerfists etc - you generally wont face anything with large toughness. however, If you do come up against a sentinel, your krak and frags may be tested.

Simple CSM - with/without marks will always out match IG - and you can take squads of up to 20 (huge amount of shots and attacks - but you need to walk them down the board - only an option for loads of cover!)

And dont forget the humble (and expensive) fast attack options - bikes and raptors. turbo across the board for a 3+ cover save that cant be ignored (espectially considering you can give 3 bikes a special weapon each).

I generally wouldnt try to out shoot IG - we simply dont have enough long range firepower in CSM.

Good luck!

Well, the first way to prepare is to get some astroglide - I mean... what kind of guard army is it? Defeating a leafblower requires a different set of tools than defeating an infantry horde.

There is only one thing you can prepare for - DEATH.

FOOOR THE EMMMPEERROORRRR!

It really depends on what he has.

Always bring 2 squads of termicide or 5 raptors with meltas., deep strike them behind is lines , especially if he has artillery.

Then if they survive, charge those teams in cover, lascannons and autocannons. Rhino rushing is dangerous if he has a lot o those teams, orders to make the weapons twin linked and make you re roll sucessefull cover saves hurt

Get as much assaulty goodness as possible and STUFF IT!


Stuff it right into a land raider heading straight for his lines. Khorne Berzerkers. 3x Terminator Champions with LCs and 2 Terminators Body Bags with MoK are usefull [/understatement]

NostrilOfTerror wrote:Stuff it right into a land raider heading straight for his lines. Khorne Berzerkers. 3x Terminator Champions with LCs and 2 Terminators Body Bags with MoK are usefull [/understatement]

This. If your buddy doesn't have money to mechanize, chances are that he didn't really outfit his infantry all that well either. Four LRs full of 'zerks, terminators, and a Chaos Lord w/ daemon weapon should really do a number on him.

Alright heres the scoop on what I'm going against.

I know he wants to use Heavy Weapon Teams w/ Lascannons for sure and Conscripts.

most troops on foot (80% or so)

Veteren Squads w/ Plasma Guns (probably an upgrade)

I just bet he's going to attempt to field A LOT of troops since he likes to point out just how many troop models his lists field. His model count will be somewhere around the ballpark of 100 give or take 20...Maybe more than that if he goes obscene on another conscript squad or something. but that's a rough guess.

He's not too frugle. And I'm sure he'll probably get some chimera's, most likely a leman russ as well. I know he won't field squadrons of anything though.


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Also these are 1500 point armies.


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My first thought about making my list overpowered vs his is this.

Rhino Wall w/ Dakka predators w/ Havok Launchers in the back. That much shooting out of two predators should end up killing loads of things.

the old tried and true double lash winged demon prince combo is your friend. the leafblower doesn't work when you're in close combat at the bottom of turn 2.

Lash Princes make the DP a little less killy.... but what am I lashing them into range of? Boltgun fire maybe? I thought about taking vindicators w/ Havok Launchers just to give them something to use while they're moving into range behind the rhino wall.

But if you're getting vindicators, you might as well get Defilers, then you have no reason for lash princes...

Koski wrote:Lash Princes make the DP a little less killy.... but what am I lashing them into range of? Boltgun fire maybe? I thought about taking vindicators w/ Havok Launchers just to give them something to use while they're moving into range behind the rhino wall.

But if you're getting vindicators, you might as well get Defilers, then you have no reason for lash princes...

lashing accomplishes two big goals (especially vs the IG).

1) you're readjusting the unit to fit perfectly under any blast markers you have (defilers preferably). that squad of 30 guardsmen blobbed up? now they're 2d6" closer and you'll have 10+ under the large blast marker if it hits and 7 under a small one like the havoc.

2) you're bringing an enemy unit 2d6" closer using an assault weapon in preparation for charging. you get the extra 6" of charge "movement" if you can connect and probably another d6" of consolidation in the direction of your choice if you win. if you don't win, you're tied up in close combat and can't be shot. it's a win-win as long as you get the charge off. another sneaky trick is to use 2 lashes to ensure you're in charge range. first, fire off the further DP to bring a unit closer to the front DP; then either do the same to adjust them again if needed. you can easily get off a first turn charge even in pitched battle like this using a winged DP.

against armies that are as good or better than you in close combat, #1 should be the focus. against tau/IG, the second is better but both are possible.

Wow. I suppose really laid out like that at least one Lash Prince would be a great asset. I know he's going to have massive squads, and moving them perfectly into the open for blast templates is a great idea. I forget about how LOS is an issue with weapons a lot of times.

actually, yeah, MoK marines with krak grenades will work pretty well against pretty much any guard list. Angry kraking against tanks and transports, extra chainsword attacks against infantry. Also, demon princes with wings are good against tanks and transports and, except against power blobs, are good against infantry (and they'll even keep a power blob hung up for a couple of turns).

Koski wrote:Wow. I suppose really laid out like that at least one Lash Prince would be a great asset. I know he's going to have massive squads, and moving them perfectly into the open for blast templates is a great idea. I forget about how LOS is an issue with weapons a lot of times.

yeah, i learned the lesson the hard way. i took off 4th edition 40k and came back into the game out a year and a half ago so i didn't have any preknowledge about lash. well, i fielded a blob squad soon after the IG codex was released last year and my 50 guys got lashed out of the cover they were in and 10" into the open closer to a daemon prince. luckily, he killed enough of them in shooting to force a morale check that i failed and i regrouped on my turn.