Some tweaking to a Kan wall that was breached

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**sn0zcumb3r**

Hi guys looking for some input!
I played a game last night, Orks Vs Ultramarines at 1500

His list (AFAIR)
HQ
Ortan Cassius

ELITES
5x Termies SS+TH with Landraider transport
Ironclad Dread
Venerable Dread

TROOPS
10x Tacticals with ML and Melta
Rhino transport
10x Tacticals with ML and Melta
Rhino transport

HEAVY SUPPORT
2 x Predators

Mine
HQ
2 x BM with KFF

ELITES
3x 5 Lootas

TROOPS
3x 19 Shoota Boys plus Nob,PK and BP
1x 18 Grots plus Runtherd

FAST ATTACK
2x Deffkoptas with TL Rockets and Buzzsaw

HEAVY SUPPORT
2 x 3 Killer Kans with Grotzookas
1 x 3 Killer Kans with Rockets

We roll off and it is Annihilation, Spearhead and he goes first so it wasn’t the best scenario for me and I end up loosing a close game 7 to 6 KP. Thinking over the game now I have the following observations:
I had too many boys! In Spearhead or Dawn of War they hardly fit on the table and end up getting all bogged down in bottle necks and by some good movement by my opponent. I could loose the Grots but they are as cheap as Ms Alexadratou, they keep my Lootas safe from DeepStrikers and outflankers and if it had been objectives then they would have shone.
I didn’t have enough anti vehicle in the list. In larger point games I field 3x 10Lootas 2 Dreads with DCCW and also 1 more Deffkopta so I haven’t had a problem before.

The possible solutions I though of are as follows
a) To drop a few boys for Rockets on all the Kans
b) To drop 1 squad of Boys and add 10 Stormboyz thus getting a PK that can keep up with vehicles and avoid getting clogged up

I think more Lootas will not work as they are not that effective against AV 13 which was what was causing the problem

Do you have any suggestions? As this is an all comers list how would the changes fair against other races? I only have experience vs Vanilla SM, Blood Angels, Necrons and various IG

**kenshin620**

how about bikes/trukk boyz? sure they're not going to be protected from the kan wall but it can quickly deliver a good power klaw into the face of the enemy. Or have a Nob group with a Deff Rolla Battlewagon (or meganobz with a wagon/trukk)

**Eyclonus**

Don't add any mech units to cater for the AV13.

Consider swapping the Grotzookas around with the Rokkits on the Kans.

If getting bottlenecked is crippling, which is bound to happen with Green Tide and Kan Walls, try moving to Trukk-spam or Mech-BWagon builds.

What did the Dreads and Preds have anyway? Were they anti-tank or anti-infantry?

**sn0zcumb3r**

Yeah Mech element is for Mech lists! I do run a Battlewagon list too but I want to fix this one up.
The Ironclad had a multi melta and a seismic hammer, the venerable had an autocannon in think so AV. Predators had autocannons (Str 7 2 shots) and heavy bolters (Str 5 3hots) (i may be getting the names wrong)

**WarOne**

Your list at 1500 points is actually fairly typical for Kan Wall.

Aside from switching around the Kans and making them all rokkits, you already have a tight list and changing anything dramatically would be detrimental.

I would consider swapping out one five man Loota squad for another Deffkopta, OR suck out a few more points elsewhere and get yourself some Buggies with twin-linked rokkits.

**Eyclonus**

Well it looks like you're opponent had some idea what they were doing then. I don't know about Cassius except that he's a Smurf, so therefore I dislike him off the bat, I've read some debates about using hims with a combo of another character but thats really it.

**sn0zcumb3r**

So dropping a whole squad of boys is a bad idea?
How about dropping that squad, and with the points left beefing up the 2 remaining squads to 25 boys each, adding rockets to the Kans and finaly add Deffkopta (TL rocket and Buzzsaw) or 5 Lootas??

I am torn..
PS Eyclonus Cassius is an ugly smurf who gives the terminators he's atttached to FNP and reroll to hits

**Eyclonus**

sn0zcumb3r wrote:PS Eyclonus Cassius is an ugly smurf who gives the terminators he's atttached to FNP and reroll to hits

THE CAD!!!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually yeah, I can see why he's causing problems with those Ass Termies. Hmm... He doesn't give them fearless does he?

**Claypool**

I'd drop a Loota mob for another Kopta or Rokkits on all your Kans.

I would advise very strongly against dropping any boyz. You never want to trade boyz for toyz.

**sn0zcumb3r**

Thanks guys.
I dont want to drop a Loota squad for a Deffkopta as they are very hit or miss units and I already have 2. Lootas on the other hand are quite durable behind the wall and do superbly againts AV10-12. At higher points I will add more of both.
I think Warbuggies is a good idea and would consider replacing Lootas with them however I currently a) dislike the model b) do not posses any warbuggie model c) don't want to scratch build something.
I will keep the boys as suggested an drop the grots (64 points) for rockits on all Kans more boys

**mercer**

Your list isn't too bad but I'd definately add rokkits on those Kanz. Also, why 19 Boyz for? Just for points?

Rest is fine.