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So the way I've read it, I came up with these two possibilities.

1) a casting roll that IS succesful (ie: the dice total equals or exceeds the casting level, and DOES include any double, is irresistible force.

2) Any casting roll including a double is succesful and will be cast with irresistible force

The roll must be successfully cast. If it is successful, AND includes a double, then the spell is IF.

nielsen333 wrote:1) a casting roll that IS succesful (ie: the dice total equals or exceeds the casting level, and DOES include any double, is irresistible force.

This, the other is only true for Teclis.
Lousy stinkin Teclis...

Actually it is true for Teclis as well.

Teclis must meet the casting value with his roll. If it includes doubles, then it is cast with IF

Really, dang g*y elfs cheated me!!!

I agree with Lehnsherr, both Teclis and the Book of Hoeth need to be successfully cast first to get IF on doubles.

They may not have cheated you Hover.

I once made that same mistake myself, and needed to be corrected. Its just one line in his description and the person playing might have honestly missed it when reading.

Thats why the website is here afterall, to help players clarify rules so we are all playing with correct rules.

Do you also miscast on any double, or only on double six?

Teclis and the Book of Hoeth only miscast if there are two or more 6's.

Wow, I thought Teclis and the Book of Hoeth only need to roll any doubles to cast IF. I didn't think they had to actually beat the casting value. Hmm....

Yeah....Teclis and the BoH would be crazy broken if that caveat wasn't included in their rules.

And as mentioned by DarkAngelHopeful, the recent FAQs clarified that miscasts/Loss of Control only occurs on double 6's.

Its still fairly easy with the new rules to match the casting value of most spells when casting with either Teclis or an Archmage, but yes it is an important caveat to the rules.

Funny enough it may have been Jin who corrected me not so long ago in regards to this situation...

Thanks Jin!

Dang it! lol I had great plans for Teclis! Oh well, as they say in my branch of the service, "Flexibility is the key to air power." Time to modify my game plan.

Hah, was I? No problem!

A person would be amazed at how easily I can roll 1,2,3,4,5,6 when I want a spell to go off IF with Teclis or BoH Archmage.

I think I'd just die laughing if that happened to me. Its just so ridiculous one can't help but laugh.

I think the Book is awesome despite it failing you in your times of need. If it does happen to me though, Ill take solace in the fact that I am not the first, nor will I be the last to suffer from the wrath of the dice gods.

DarkAngelHopeful wrote:"Flexibility is the key to not going insane when orders change for the third time on mission."

FTFY!

Lehnsherr wrote:They may not have cheated you Hover.

Yea, yea, he's a bud of mine so i'm gonna tell him, and he's gonna feel bad and we won't get it wrong ever again

Did the FAQ change Teclis' rule or something? Because as far as I can see, it says (pg. 66 HE book) "In addition, any spells cast by Teclis will be cast with Irresistible Forceon any successful casting roll wich includes a double, except a miscast." My RAW interpretation of that sentence is that the spell goes of ("is cast") if you get any doubles, except double 6, and that double 6 strangely enough doesn't give him IF. I'm guessing it's been FAQ'd though, can't check ATM.

Yes, there has been a FAQ. The part that I was mistaken on from the beginning and was overlooking, unintentionally, was the wording "successful cast."

As it's been mentioned throughout the post, Teclis must first satisfy the requirement of meeting or beating the casting cost of the spell, additionally, if any of those dice are doubles, including 6's, it counts as IF. However, if the doubles are 6's, then it's a miscast.

Which brings up a point. If Teclis doesn't meet or beat the casting cost, but he roll's double 6's, does he still have a miscast, or is it just a failed spell? And I guess the same question would apply to any wizard other than Teclis with double 6's.

A succesful cast is one where you meet (or beat) the casting value. Basic rules

DarkAngel - he gets IF AND a miscast, as the rules for *normal* IF mean you count as succesfully casting even if you dont meet the casting value. The Book of Hoeth does not change or override this in any way shape or form.

So, to sum it up:

Teclis and Book of Hoeth get normal IF and miscast rules per the BRB, meaning they cause IF and miscast on a roll of double 6's regardless if they meet or beat the casting cost.
However, they only get IF with their special rules, if they meet or beat the casting cost and roll any double, miscasting along with IF'ing if the double is 6's.

I really wish they would IF on any double and not have to meet or beat the casting cost. Oh well.

DarkAngelHopeful wrote:

I really wish they would IF on any double and not have to meet or beat the casting cost. Oh well.

Interesting, proposing a buff to one of the most powerful and undercosted characters in the game!

He is more than fine the way he is. Id be fine with him not having to meet the casting cost, as long as he miscast on every double.

Don't forget that Teclis has one of the biggest weakenss of the game as well. No armor, no ward save, S2 and T2? Pretty stinky, he leaves no room for error. I wouldn't exactly call him undercosted.

I think that some slann builds are better than Teclis and they aren't much more expensive.

Slann's tend to be more defensive, with survivability. For sheer magical output though, I'd still go with Teclis and a Banner of Sorcery.

Rumination allows a Slann to cast alot, but Teclis will cast with IF alot. His spells won't be dispelled.

For his points value, there really isn't a better caster out there.

True slann are better all rounders but when it comes to offence Teclis holds the top spot, altho slann are also harder to kill and easier to guard.

I agree slanns are powerful little frog men.

But when you hear

Cast XXXX Irresistible
Cast XXXX Irresistible
Cast XXXX Irresistible


you are kind like uhhhh lame.

plus unless you roll 8ish or more dice, the D3 bonus dice from teclis and the D3 bonus dice from the banner give rumination a run for its money.

Played against a teclis that rolled a 3, (one then a two) so i sat there with two dispell dice, then he rolled a 3 and 3 and channeled one. So he was sitting on ten dice to my two dispell dice.

I was like yeah... lame...

I agree that he's powerful. And a string of 3 IF's in a row would suck. However, it seems that he's easier to kill than a Slann. He can't hide as easily in a unit. I have come up with a PG unit that he can be in the back row, but it seems like Slann have it better in a unit of TG. I'm not that familiar with Slann stuff, but it also seems like they have a bunch of bubble effects and seem like more of a force multiplier than Teclis.

I think both Slann and Teclis are powerful in their own ways.

DarkAngelHopeful wrote:I think both Slann and Teclis are powerful in their own ways.

You think right.