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How do you handle the situation where you are firing from an elevated position down onto a vehicle target where you have an unobstructed view of the top armor, but the "normal" facing armor (front/side) is over 50% obscured? Does the vehicle get no cover, normal cover, something else?

JimG wrote:How do you handle the situation where you are firing from an elevated position down onto a vehicle target where you have an unobstructed view of the top armor, but the "normal" facing armor (front/side) is over 50% obscured? Does the vehicle get no cover, normal cover, something else?

What facing are you in? You shoot that facing.
Can you see the facing? Yes, because you can see the top part of the vehicle. If not, check to see if you can see another facing (or top of facing), if Yes, Shoot that with the cover save, if no, you can't see the vehicle!
Does it get cover? Check if it's 50% obscured.

If you are firing onto the "top" of a (for example) Predator, you hit whatever facing you are firing from, Front, Side or Rear. There are no rules for "top" armour outside specialized scenarios that are not normal 40k.

True, there are no rules to cover this particular situation in the base rules (iirc, cityfight has rules for this). However, the BRB does discuss hitting the top armor in the context of indirect fire barrages:

page 60 wrote:Barrage weapons, however, always hit the vehicle's side armor (representing its top armor).

Everywhere else that top armor is referred to in scenarios, spearhead (skyfall spearhead), or cities of death, they consistently say top armor = side armor.

So, RAW in basic ruleset you would just hit the facing, though they would not count as 'obscured." Scenarios or house rules, you should use the top armor. If I were house ruling it, I would add the additional caveat that you've have to have at least a 45 degree angle or greater to hit the top.

Outside "normal" 40k (and somewhat inside it) there are 2 rules for "top" armor.

The first is in Cityfight; and reads clearly: Rear armor I believe

the second is an indirect fire weapon(barrage) wich clearly state side armor is used as AV.

Gwar is correct for "direct fire" weapons in "normal" 40k; Use the facing you are in, and apply a cover save/obscured status if you cannot see more than 50% of said facing of the vehicle(page 62 of the brb)

Gwar! wrote:

JimG wrote:How do you handle the situation where you are firing from an elevated position down onto a vehicle target where you have an unobstructed view of the top armor, but the "normal" facing armor (front/side) is over 50% obscured? Does the vehicle get no cover, normal cover, something else?

What facing are you in? You shoot that facing.
Can you see the facing? Yes, because you can see the top part of the vehicle. If not, check to see if you can see another facing (or top of facing), if Yes, Shoot that with the cover save, if no, you can't see the vehicle!
Does it get cover? Check if it's 50% obscured.

If you are firing onto the "top" of a (for example) Predator, you hit whatever facing you are firing from, Front, Side or Rear. There are no rules for "top" armour outside specialized scenarios that are not normal 40k.

Quick question for clarification:

Say that you are firing towards the side of the vehicle but due to being on high ground, you can see 100% of the vehicles top. However, more than 50% of the actuall side panel of the vehicle is obscured by another tank. I would assume the vehicle would get a cover save. Is this correct?

wyomingfox wrote:Say that you are firing towards the side of the vehicle but due to being on high ground, you can see 100% of the vehicles top. However, more than 50% of the actuall side panel of the vehicle is obscured by another tank. I would assume the vehicle would get a cover save. Is this correct?

Eh, it is unclear, because the rules do not cover this situation. I would say that perhaps, RaW, you would get the save because the facing is Front, not "Front and a little bit at the top extending to an arbitrary location somewhere roughly in the middle of the vehicles top down view."

Well the way the diagram in the BRB is drawn makes me think facings do include the top armor. The diagram doesn't just tell you that the faces are part of the facing, but that the sections of the top are part as well, afaik.

Edit: The diagram I'm refering to is on Pg. 60 if anyone wants to take a look.

If the diagram in the rulebook is to be believed, you draw an X over the top of the vehicle, from corner of the hull to corner of the hull. The "facing" consists of the actual side of the vehicle as well as everything contained in the rough triangle to the center point of the vehicle, determinated by the corners of the hull relative to the other corners.

It has to be this way because not all vehicles have a clear "front" or "side" versus "top" (such as the Hammerhead or Wave Serpent), and therefore do not have a clear flat "front facing" like, say, a Rhino.

So if this is the hull of a Hammerhead:

______
|xxxxxx|
|xxxxxx|
|xxxxxx|
\xxxxxx/
.\xxxx/
|_/\/\_|

Then you would draw an X from

v this corner to
______
|xxx.xxx|
|xxx.xxx|
|xxx.xxx|
\xxx.xxx/
.\xx.xx/
|_/\./\_| < this corner

and
______<this corner to
|xxx.xxx|
|xxx.xxx|
|xxx.xxx|
\xxx.xxx/
.\xx.xx/
|_/\./\_|
^ this corner

and everything in red (roughly)

______
|xxx.xxx|
|xxx.xxx|
|xxx.xxx|
\xxx.xxx/
.\xx.xx/
|_/\./\_|

is your "front facing."

Yeah?

Oh, and sincerest apologies for the absolutely horrid ASCII artwork.

Irdiumstern wrote:Well the way the diagram in the BRB is drawn makes me think facings do include the top armor. The diagram doesn't just tell you that the faces are part of the facing, but that the sections of the top are part as well, afaik.

Edit: The diagram I'm refering to is on Pg. 60 if anyone wants to take a look.

Sweet magnetic Jesus on a dashboard!!! Talk about the answer being right in front of you all the time! Excellent point! Thanks guys!

Jim

No comments about my artwork, huh?

Ah well.

You're welcome.

Brilliantly effective ASCII work there :-D