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Made in gb
Tower of Power






Cannock

Here's a article to possibly end the debat of which is better; Warbuggy or Deffkopter!

Warbuggy

Starting with the Warbuggy here, got a Ork Trukk like profile so armour 10 all the way round open-topped and fast. That costs you 30 points base. You can add wargear onto the Buggy such as twin-linked rokkits, skorcha, red paint job, grot riggers, armour plates and upgrade to Wartrakk. For comparsion purposes I'm looking at a single build for the Warbuggy; the Rokkit-Buggy.

Pros

The Warbuggy is fast which means it can move 18", though this isn't massively useful and I'll explain why in a minute. More importantly is can move 12" throw in that 24" range rokkit ans you've got a 36" tank busting unit.

It's very cheap on points costing 35 points in total, which is half the price of a single Deffkopter.

You can upgrade to a Wartrakk which allows you to re-roll terrain tests, this makes the Warbuggy 40 points but is still a bargain buy.

Being a vehicle it can take advantage of a Big Meks kustom force field giving it a 4+ cover save, and who doesn't use one of those?

Unlike Deffkopters, Warbuggies don't take morale tests

Cons

The Buggy is fast no doubt about it but moving 18" is partially wasted as the Buggy cannot fire and will be out of kustom force field range so no cover save, so part of that speed you're paying for you may not use.

Being armour 10 and having a rokkit strapped to it means this unit is a weak like paper and a high proritit target. Even S4 weapons can wreck it if they manage to glance it and then roll a 6+ on the vehicle damage chart.

Unless upgraded to a Wartrakk the Warbuggy has the same chances of bogging down in terrain like any vehicle, while rolling two 1's in a row for terrain is bad, a Wartrakk can still fail and that Buggy is now hung out to dry.

With weak armour the Warbuggy can be easily be assaulted and taken out in assault without any real defence.

Tactics

You could run Warbuggies in squadrons of 2; these gives two rokkit shots per unit and still costing the same price for a single Deffkopter, so 2 Warbuggies for the price of one. However, remember the squadron rules which means any immobilised vehicle wrecked so take damage or even get stuck in terrain then it's bye-bye Buggy making this weaker vehicles even weaker.

When deploying the Buggies always make sure they're in KFF range; this should be a no brainer. If you're deploying first put the Buggies up front of the rest of your lines so they can get closer to the targets, because they are in KFF range you'll get a cover save just in case your opponent does manage to seize the initiative. If you go second hid them behind other units, as the Buggies are low even without a KFF 50% of the front should be covered giving you a nice 4+ cover save too.

First turn zoom them out from behind your units (if you went second) or move them forward in tandem with other units, Battlewagons or even Trukks make great LOS blockers to these so shield them well but remember to change angle of your Battlewagon so it too can get a 3+ cover save from certain angles of attacks . If you haven't got any mobile LOS blockers then use terrain with best effort to make sure the Warbuggies are covered or at least get a cover save Though, in theory the Warbuggies should be in range by turn 1 anyway, besides in Dawn of War deployments.

With the Buggy been fast and having range you should be able to flank a tanks side armour, but keep away from it, you don't need to get close! Blast from a far and use two Warbuggies per tank to make sure the job is done, even with twin-linked Orks still aren't that good at shooting Other targets are viable too, Warbuggies are excellent for knocking wounds off monstrous creatures (AP3) as same with vehicles keep your distance as you've got 24" range and a monstrous creature would make a mess of a Warbuggy in assault.

In objective games and providing you have any surviving Warbuggies use them to contest objectives which you haven't claimed. Use them to do the job required (busting tanks and monstrous creatures) once done hide them away and use them as a counter unit, send them forward and get those objectives!

Deffkopter

The Deffkopter is pretty much the same as a Warbike except it has two wounds and is counted as a jetbike, which is pretty cool. As standard it costs 35 points and wargear options are twin-linked rokkits, kustom mega blasta, bigbomm and buzzsaw. There's only two I'm going to pay interest in; the rokkit and buzzsaw, though buzzsaw isn't essential, but is high priority on getting.

Pros

As a jetbike the Deffkopter can move 12" and still fire, it can turbo boost 24" and get a 3+ cover save. With rokkits that gives a nice 36" range.

Deffkopter has scout rule which means it has the ability to first turn alpha strike and knock out high priority targets before the game starts, or outflank and tackle weak tank side or rear armour.

A Deffkopter can fight in assaults, take a buzzsaw and you've got a S7 power fist on the charge. Excellent for tying up annoying units (i.e Zoanthropes) and increases your chances of taking out a enemy vehicle when doing a alpha strike.

It's got two wounds and T5 so small arms fire will have some work cut out, throw in it's 4+ armour save too.

As a jetbike it doesn't need to take terrain tests when moving over terrain.

It has hit and run so if you do manage to pass that intiative test you could charge back into the fight.

Cons

The T5 is only good against small arms fire, S8 weapons can instant death a Deffkopter.

It costs double the points of a Warbuggy if the 'Kopter has twin-linked rokkits and a buzzsaw; just a rokkit costs 10 points more.

Deffkopters can take morale tests and falling back 3D6" isn't cool :(

You'll find even without a buzzsaw it will strike last in combat, so it can take a pounding against the wrong sort.

It the Kopter lands in terrain it's counted as dangerous terrain, roll a 1 and take a wound! :(

Tactics

It's best to run Deffkopters in single units, though for redundnancy always take two at least. Reason for single units is this makes you mostly immune to morale tests, kill 50% of the unit and the 'Kopter could flee and won't return as under 50%.

When deploying if you go first put the Kopters are the front of your lines, then use the scout move and turbo boost them towards high priority targets, remember in scout move you've got to stay 12" away . If deploying second either hold them in reserve for some outflanking fun, but remember, Orks don't have reserve bonus so they might not turn up until turn 4 which robs you of valuable anti tank and ranged fire power too. Best bet is hide them out the way using other models to block LOS or terrain, then let the enemy come to you and once in range move 12" and blast those 24" range rokkits. If you do feel brave and daring maybe scout and get 3+ cover and weather the storm, maybe. I have been in the situation before when I did this and the enemy concentrated all fire on my Kopters which left the remaining of my force without any damage, but 70 points per Kopter is a lot to throw away.

Depending if you take a buzzsaw or not tactics may differ for how you use a Deffkopter. If you are taking just rokkits then use the same tactics as a Warbuggy, which is stay 24" away so you don't get assaulted and flank tanks side armour - you've got range and movement so use it. If you're taking a buzzsaw you want to move up fire rokkits and then assault, assault tanks or as mentioned tie up annoying units. If you are going to send Deffkopters into large-ish infantry say Tactical Squad size make sure you send two Deffkopters for the job as that's two seperate units the attacks need to be split on, meaning less wounds per Kopter and you'll get to use those buzzsaws before your Kopters snuff it!

Like a Warbuggy Deffkopters are excellent for contesting objectives late on, but they are a bit better because they can turbo boost 24" and get a 3+ cover save which makes them more survivable. Once a Kopters job is done hold them back and hide them, then last turn(s) of the game turbo boost and contest objectives.

Summary

Both the Deffkopter and Warbuggy are a awesome piece of kit, both do well for the right role, in this case tank busting for this discussion. Both have one more con than pro for each, though the Kopter has one more of each than the Warbuggy which still balances out. Both of them have weaknesses and strengths.

The main problem for me is the weakness of the Warbuggy, bolters can pop it, however torrent a Deffkopter with a single Tactical Squad then they might get lucky. The Warbuggy can get cover if a KFF is range, though a Kopter can get a better cover save but that means no shooting (turbo boost).

While the Warbuggy is cheap and cheerful, the Deffkopter has a few more advantages - it doesn't take terrain tests (unless it has too) and can alpha strike taking out units before they even start, it has double chances of doing this because it can assault but if a Warbuggy fires and misses then tough luck!

Verdict

The Deffkopter appears to be the better choice of the two. The 'Kopter can asborb marginally more small arms fire but suffers the same weakness from high strength weapons as a Warbuggy. It's ability to alpha strike is the main card for the 'Kopter giving it two chances to wreck something rather than one. Though, the Warbuggy is still pretty cool and is a lot less points than the Deffkopter, just the 'Kopter has a few extra advantages.

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Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought






For rokkit support it depends on the rest of the army.

KFF wagon=buggies are clearly superior as they can hug the KFF for a 4+ cover save.

Green tide/nob bikers=deffkoptas are clearly superior as they can hide behind other units for a cover save.

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Made in ca
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Ontario

The two wounds make it instantly far more survivable than the warbuggy. Against str 8+, the warbuggy is probably going to die anyways, and while the deffkopta will probably die too, against str 5, deffkoptas need to get two unsaved wounds, whereas the buggy only needs one penetrating hit. Thusly, the deffkoptas will survive longer.

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Made in ca
Flashy Flashgitz





Just to straighten it out, the war buggies are only 10 points less than a deffkopta if they are both outfitted with rokkits, 5 if you make it a war trakk or take rpj. So it's not quite a 2 for 1 thing at all. Keeping that in mind I would much rather take deffkoptas, 10 points for scout, turbo and jet bike? I'm down, the only time I would take buggies is if I had an all wheeled mech force, then I would run them in the kff bubble that would inevitably be part of that list. As far as survivability goes I consider both to be equally fragile, unless you had 3 buggies inside a kff bubble, rolls on the vehicle damage chart don't alwase mean kills.

JSK fox - but if I hit the kopta with that same strength 8 shot you hit the buggie with, he would be insta killed. You opponent will pick the right weapons to kill what you have (unless you play "slow" people) they are both really fragile, you also have to understand if you take a unit of more than 1 kopta and you lose one and have to take a leadership check you are testing on ork's leadership which is not good and I would never rely on but you don't have the option for a boss pole. They are equally fragile units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/03 19:46:27


 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User



Da Bigg Island Of Hawaaaghii !

I personally favor the koptas over the buggies.

Koptas are run in (3) 2-man units w/ TL-RL,in my bike list.

The roles the koptas fill in the said list are, they give my orks
a bit of ranged anti-armor. With the 12" move & the rokkits
24" range not much will be out of range.

Secondly depending the mission & deployment type,if i win the roll off to go 1st. Koptas are set up as far forward as possible. Scout move as far as possible , 1st turn move,shoot & repeat . This where i think they shine vs. buggies.They are far more flexible than the buggies . Koptas have the scout (outflank) USR , jetbikes ,the ability to move them into area terrain to get that 4+ cover save without needing a KFF mek . Can be thrown into that heavy weapon unit on the 2nd+ floors , a harassment unit to take potshots @ whatever & a last turn obj. contester.

Ohh btw the koptas are far of a better looking model than those ol' buggy models . Hopefully GW will release some new models in the near future.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/04 06:25:27


 
   
Made in us
Yellin' Yoof





I have my own buggy models which are about half the size of a trukk and I love them. A buggy squadron has a big enough footprint to be used as a mobile blockade, or effectively screen large groups of stormboyz.

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Made in ca
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




Vancouver, BC

The two units have completely different roles so it's apples and oranges. Deffkoptas are a suicidal alpha-strike/distraction unit, while buggies are better suited as a bubblewrap for your battlewagons. Spread them out the full 4 inches for a total of roughly 14" of wall with a 3-buggy squadron. They are also surprising resilient for their points if you have a KFF nearby.

Buggies provide better rokkits per point value, but that isn't their main draw and if you are only taking them for the rokkits then there are better places to look in the codex (kannons for instance).

The tactics presented in your post are definitely spot on and any new Ork player will benefit from this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/04 09:50:17


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Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Battle Creek, MI

While they are in the same slot and preform the same roles I don't use them same way. So it's not a matter of which is better because I use both.

Deffkoptas - I only take one per slot. I slap on a Rokkit Launcha and a buzzsaw. Their job is to scout ahead and outflank depending on which turn I get. They are Alpha strike units they will die but if they can pop a transport or kill a tank they have done their job

War Buggies - I take a squad of three. Mount a Rokkit Launcher on each. They run in front of my battlewagons and trukks inside the KFF. Their main role is to take down transports. Their secondary job is to get shot. Alot of opponents target the closes threats frist. But if they are firing Missiles, Lascannons, etc at them then they are not firing them at my more important Battlewagons and Trukks. The third job they preform is basically give you a meltagun bumper from units in Razorbacks, Chimeras, etc they stay ahead a bit to keep your Battlewagons out of the 6" range


   
 
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