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I have a question regarding the Blood Angels Storm Raven and its PotMS this came up in a game today.

So me and my friend were playing a game he was using an amazing 3 Storm Ravens in his army up against my Blob Guard. He Turbo Boosted 24 inches and then used the Multi-Melta on one of my Chimeras. Now initially we played it this way but after the game me and my friend were talking to our FLGS TO and he said that he thinks, but wasn't 100% sure, that the Storm Raven can NOT use PotMS after Turbo Boosting as apparently in the rulebook it says the vehicle may do NOTHING else.

Now RAW we discussed it and decided that both ways seemed right. According to the rulebook after Turbo Boosting you can not do anything more. However PotMS says that the vehicle may fire 1 weapon more than it would normally be able to and since its Turbo Boosting it wouldn't be able to fire any and so therefore 1 more than 0 is 1 so it would still be able to fire a weapon.

Help me and my friend want to know what the correct way is.

It's technically moving flat-out. And it makes a huge difference.

Moving flat out says that you just move at cruising speed, except for the difference that you're fast of course.

POTMS let's you fire one more weapon then normal, even at cruising speed.

He can use POTMS when moving flat out.

Common misconception: Turbo-boosting = Flat-out.

Turbo-boosting is something bikes do, fast vehicles ONLY move flat out.
The rules don't have THAT much in common. They give a different cover save and have different restrictions on movement and actions.

BlazingGhost - no, Flat out is NOT Cruising Speed. Flat Out has its own restrictions over and above cruising speed.

As above - do not confuse turbo boost and flat out, they are entirely different.

Exactly, i dont understand how, but EVERYONE seems to confuse flatout and turboboosting ....

To reiterate, you can move a stormraven flat out 24" and still fire the twin linked multi melta with PotMS.

kill dem stunties wrote:To reiterate, you can move a stormraven flat out 24" and still fire the twin linked multi melta with PotMS.

No, you cannot. The wording is the exact same as Smoke Launchers.

If you can do this, you can fire it with smoke launchers, which is not allowed.

Unless you say it is.

BRB page 70, right column, Fast Vehicles, Moving Fast Vehicles.
- Flat out is treated the same as cruising speed is for vehicles that aren't fast.

Codex: Blood Angels page 37, right column, Land Raider, Power of the Machine Spirit.
"Therefore, a vehicle that has moved at <snip>, and a vehicle that has either moved at cruising speed, or has <snip> result can still fire a single weapon."
(Just cutting out irrelevant information so that I don't quote too much of the rules)

An odd quirk - the Blood Angels PotMS contradicts itself when it comes to fast vehicles moving at cruising speed.

You would be correct mahtamori but going down one paragraph it gives a clarification for fast vehicles firing weapons at cruising and flat out. IF that clarification wasn't there then a fast vehicle moving flat out would be able to fire a weapon. That is not the case though. Moving flat out means your doing nothing else which means your not allowed to use power of the machine spirit to fire a weapon.

that being said stores across the country are playing it differently so it is a gray area for sure. we won't get a true answer til GW faq's it which won't be forever.

Gwar! wrote:

kill dem stunties wrote:To reiterate, you can move a stormraven flat out 24" and still fire the twin linked multi melta with PotMS.

No, you cannot. The wording is the exact same as Smoke Launchers.

If you can do this, you can fire it with smoke launchers, which is not allowed.

Unless you say it is.

The wording is not the same as Smoke launchers the Wording(about moving as fast as possible and not firing guns) is exactly the same as Cruising Speed. The rules also tell you to treat Flat Out exactly as you would Cruising.

Cruising in the shooting rules State the vehicle may not Fire.

Most players(and T.O.s) believe that a land raider is capable of Firing 1 weapon after moving at Cruising speed because of the wording of POTMS(Land Raider can fire 1 more than normally permitted). The reason for this is that the Cruising and firing rules state the Vehicle is not permitted to fire any weapons(may), and the POTMS says the vehicle if physically capable of(can) firing 1 more weapon than permitted(goes back to that earlier may).

Yes a Storm Raven is capable of firing 1 weapon when it moves Flat out; But GW has screwed us trying to interpret just what the heck the rules say by throwing a Fluff explanation into the middle of a rule(and the beginning of that stating: "this represents" does indicate it is a fluff explanation for the rule)

Kommissar Kel wrote:Most players(and T.O.s) believe

Gwar! wrote:

kill dem stunties wrote:To reiterate, you can move a stormraven flat out 24" and still fire the twin linked multi melta with PotMS.

No, you cannot. The wording is the exact same as Smoke Launchers.

If you can do this, you can fire it with smoke launchers, which is not allowed.

Unless you say it is.

wow who would have thought Gwar would get a rules call wrong.

Darkwynn wrote:You would be correct mahtamori but going down one paragraph it gives a clarification for fast vehicles firing weapons at cruising and flat out. IF that clarification wasn't there then a fast vehicle moving flat out would be able to fire a weapon. That is not the case though. Moving flat out means your doing nothing else which means your not allowed to use power of the machine spirit to fire a weapon.

that being said stores across the country are playing it differently so it is a gray area for sure. we won't get a true answer til GW faq's it which won't be forever.

Well PoTMS it is not the crew that is firing the weapon, it is the machine spirit (looking at the fluff) but were talking about RAW.

PoTMS says you can fire one more weapon than would normally be allowed (flat out allows 0, 1 more than zero is 1+0=1) it even goes on to say moving at cruising speed, or under Crew shaken, and stunned can still fire one weapon.

RAW you can fire 1 weapon if you move flat out.

Wow gwar .... not only wrong on a clear RAW, you even are confusing the wording of the rules in question, smoke launchers and PotMS wording are not the same, and do not affect each other.

If you say that it cannot go flatout and fire, then a land raider cannot move at cruising speed and use potms to fire a weapon ...

kill dem stunties wrote:Wow gwar .... not only wrong on a clear RAW, you even are confusing the wording of the rules in question, smoke launchers and PotMS wording are not the same, and do not affect each other.

I was talking about Cruising Speed and Smoke Launchers.

In any case, it's not as clear cut as I one believed. Thank you guys!

Gwar! wrote:

kill dem stunties wrote:Wow gwar .... not only wrong on a clear RAW, you even are confusing the wording of the rules in question, smoke launchers and PotMS wording are not the same, and do not affect each other.

I was talking about Cruising Speed and Smoke Launchers.

In any case, it's not as clear cut as I one believed. Thank you guys!

Translation:

Gwar! Was wrong!

Quick, Sig it!!!

This one appears to be stomped into the ground and veering off course. Moving on.