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Hi,
All C&C more than welcome. . Im new to 40k and all wargaming in general and my first army is going to be orks. Did abit of research and came up with this list.
HQ
Warboss- powerklaw, boss pole, twin-linked shoota, cybork, ammo runt. 108 points
Warboss- Warbike, attack squig, cybork, twin-linked shoota, powerklaw, boss pole, 'eavy armour 165 points

Elites
Nob Bikers. 5 nobs and 1 painboy
1 Power klaw, waaagh! banner, cybork, warbike
1 Power klaw, slugga, cybork, warbike
1 Big choppa, cybork, warbike
1 Big choppa, boss pole, cybork, warbike
1 Shoota/skorcha, cybork, warbike
1 Painboy- grot orderly, cybork, warbike 465 points

Troops
6 Nobs with painboy
1 Power Klaw, boss pole, slugga
1 Power klaw, waaagh! banner,slugga
1 Power Klaw, slugga
1 Big Choppa
1 Slugga, Choppa, boss pole
1 Shoota/rokkit launcher
1 Painboy 280 points

20 boys
Shootas and choppas
2 big shootas
1 Nob- Power klaw, boss pole 145 points

Fast Attack
3 DeffKoptas- all with twinlinked rokkits 135 points

Heavy support
Looted Wagon-
Skorcha Burna, big shoota, reinforced Ram 60 points

KillaKans
1 Grotzooka
1 Big Shoota
1 Rokkit Launcher 135 points

So basic tactics will be warboss with bike attached to the nob bikerz, other warboss and other nob squad in the looted wagon as transport, and the rest will just WAAAGGHH!
As I said this my first attempt at a army and any tips or C&C are all welcome. Thanks in advance

Looted wagon is useless. Either get them a trukk or a battle wagon. Give all killa kans the same weapons. Most people run 3 grot zookas or 3 rokkit launchas. The nob bikers should be troops since you got 2 warbosses. Plus you are kinda low on bodies. Waboss on a bike doesnt need TL Shoota

Welcome to the world of 40k!

I'm not an ork player...in fact we don't even have any at our local GW but if I was to say one thing its MORE BODIES! Orks can field the biggest swarm in all of 40k and they do excel at it. Your Nob squads are painful but they will get shot at...a lot. Granted one is on bikes and the others are in a transport but the numbers are still a little low IMO.

One thing to note is that all your nobs can count as troops since you have 2 warbosses.

It is a good list but like others have said you need more boys. I would skim points here and there to make another squad.

Maybe drop 1 nob bikers and a deffkopta, or drop the footslogging boss.

Also I wouldn't waste 10 pts on the bigshoota for the boys unless you are making them shoota boys, slugga choppa boys should be running most of the time and wont be able to use the BSs. That 10 pts is almost 2 more boys.

Running two point heavy nob squads at 1500 points is not usually done, but that doesn't mean it is ineffective. If that is the list you want to run then do it, as long as your having fun that is all that matters, and I can see them being effective if run correctly. Once you get them into CC they are going to kick and take names, if you get them there.

Grabzak Dirtyfighter wrote:

Also I wouldn't waste 10 pts on the bigshoota for the boys unless you are making them shoota boys, slugga choppa boys should be running most of the time and wont be able to use the BSs. That 10 pts is almost 2 more boys.

they do have shootas.

1500 list only use 1 nob squad. The bikes are good enough. TL anything on Orks is a total waste when you have access to a heavy flamer that auto hits at 5str! Use it (no brainer).

Battlewagons and trukks are it for transports. Looted Wagons are garbage.

Split your deffkoptas into seperate squads. They need TL rokkits and buzzsaws to be effective.

Kans serve no purpose in this army as they will be way behind the rest of your army meched up. Drop them.

You can't mix shootas and slugga/choppas. It's either all or nothing.


With all those points saved from the 2nd nob squad and warboss, you can add another 20 boyz w/ wagon, lootas, burnas, gretchin.

LynxSarnage wrote:Orks can field the biggest swarm in all of 40k...

What about Imperial Guard?

But, yes, you need more Troops. Boyz in Trukkz. Get at least 2 Squads of 20 in Trukkz. Build from there.

Ok, so...
First, orks have lots of problem in scoring games... You will certainly not leave your nobz or boyz to babysit home objective, and their offensve will probably get them killed or under 50%... So more troops...

Second, you are too spread... You have fast koptas and bikes that will be upfront and rest of the army on foot... You'll get blasted part by part... And this is Orks biggest problem... you want your enemy to deal with your entire army at the same time.. So i'd choose between footy or bikey army..

Next, looted wagon... It's just bad... So expensive, so easy to kill and so unreliable... I'd drop it without thinking...

As for boyz, 20 boyz get blasted without a problem... I can blast them with my SM in single round and you have single unit... From my experience, single footy unit is no threat at all... Hell, 2 footy units are no threat at all unless you guard them with kanz (famous kanz wall armies)... So all I can say about that are more boyz boyz boyz...

Two mobs of noobz is to expensive... Nobz are great (you did good job with diversifying), but they're too slow and will get blasted... My buddy plays them in battlewagon with Thrakka, and when I get them in open and fire with vindi, they're goon... And every army will have something to deal with them... So you MUST give them transport to get to objective as quickly as possible, or drop them... Anyways, 2 noobz is in either case just too much...

Moving on to fast attack... Koptas... Well, when I began to play wh40k, I played squad of koptas just like you did... Turns out that they are easy to get rid of threat... Unless you turboboost, they'll get whacked, and that is just too much pts for that kind of unit... As for TL rokkits, they're nice, but with bs2 it just 44% chance of hitting and you still have to penetrate... So I tried out single deffkopta squad with TL rokkit and buzzsaw... I know it looks bad on paper, but they work beautiful... Scout move turboboost towards enemy vehicle and if you go first 12'' move, tl rokkit shoot and then assault (he didn't move so 3 automatic str7 hits in rear armor)... Even if you don't go first you can turboboost and then he'll spend entre turn trying to shoot it down because of cover save 3+... I always play 2 squads of single koptas... Try it, and you will love it...

And finaly, kanz... Take the same weapon... That way you will not waste shoots on wrong kind of unit... Lets say you want to take down AV 11 rhino... So you fire with rokkit (a weapon intended to take down light vehicles, chance of immobilizing or better shot is cca 13%), grootzooka (anti-infantry, chance is cca 1%) and big shoota (again anti-infantry, chance is cca 4,1%)... So you can say that you wasted grootzooka and big shoota... Same thing applies when shooting in infantry... So make them all anti light tank (rokkits) or anti-infantry (grotzooka)... I like grotzooka better than big shoota because it negates your low bs and kills more enemies...

All in all, you should specialize... You have to do it with orks... Otherwise it won't work... Orks are like that... Paper, rock & scissors army... That way is only way to go...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Popsicle wrote:

LynxSarnage wrote:Orks can field the biggest swarm in all of 40k...

What about Imperial Guard?

But, yes, you need more Troops. Boyz in Trukkz. Get at least 2 Squads of 20 in Trukkz. Build from there.

And tyranids?

But again, you could play 180 gretchin and KFF mek in 750 game lol

I don't really think you need tons of bodies when you have tons of nobs with feel no pain, however, your looted wagon isn't going anywhere. Battlewagon would be much better holding that much points in nobs. However, either way you've got not very many armored targets. That means everything in the opposing army will shoot at the nobs. You want a KFF Mek as a second HQ if you run a wagon I think.

thanks everyone for the info. so i had a rethink. wanting all of my units arriving at the same time is just plain common sense
Revised list:
HQ
Big Mek- KFF, burna,attack squig,cybork,'eavy armour, bosspole 140 points

Warboss- Warbike, attack squig, cybork, twin-linked shoota,
powerklaw, boss pole,'eavy armour 165 points

Elites
Nob Bikers. 5 nobs and 1 painboy
1 Power klaw, waaagh! banner, cybork, warbike
1 Power klaw, slugga, cybork, warbike
1 Big choppa, cybork, warbike
1 Big choppa, boss pole, cybork, warbike
1 Shoota/skorcha, cybork, warbike
1 Painboy- grot orderly, cybork, warbike 465 points

Troops

11 boys
Shootas and choppas
1 Nob- Power klaw, boss pole
trukk 147 points

11 boys
Shootas and choppas
1 Nob- Power klaw, boss pole
trukk 147 points

18 boys
shootas and choppas
1 Nob- Power klaw, boss pole 154 points

Fast Attack
DeffKopta- twinlinked rokkit,buzzsaw 70 points
DeffKopta- twinlinked rokkit,buzzsaw 70 points


Heavy Support
Battlewagon- Deffrolla, 4 big shootas, stikkbomb chucka 135 points

Putting the 18+nob boyz squad and the big mek in the battle wagon

Not sure how many points is that list, but if you can fit them, for 150 points you can have 2 squads of 5 lootas which would, I think, completement this army by giving fire support and dealing with light transports(Rhinos, other Trukks, etc).

Take big mek only with kff... He is useless in cc so only good use for him is kff and you are spending over 50pts more...
To improve kff effect, take rather 20 boyz in another bw, rather than 2 trukks and 2 boyz squads... It will provide synergy with big mek wagon...

As for lootas they are imho ork mvp... Try to find 150pts for two squads...

And take nobz as troop choice....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, didn't see wagon wargear... You need single big shoota... Drop everything else... You should take deff rola, grabin klaw, boarding plak, extra armour, big shoota and grot oiler... Quite nice that way

Welcome to the world of DAKKA!

Now onto the horrendous list.

Your big mek ONLY needs a KFF, thats it.

ON the boss dump the bike attack squig , AND the twinlinked shoota

Dump the biker nobz.

DO NOT DO A TRUKK ARMY IT SUCKS BALLS.

Do a Wagon rush list (battlewagonz).

Have a 265 point nob squad to go with the boss and big mek.

Make sure 3 boyz mobz are 19 boyz w/ 1 nob - pk, bosspole - 160

Dump the koptaz at 1500 they dont work.

Now onto the most important vehicle in ork history the battlewagon.
have it equipped like this: battlewagon - deff rolla, armor plates, grot riggers and a big shoota for 130 points you get a 235 point killing unit. (kills raiders and monoliths like nothing else.

Also on your list be SURE to just modify the first one. We are all lazy and ONLY want to see the latest list at the top.

Remember I am mean to start out to make your list BETTER. Once you HAVE a BUTT kicking list which you will soon (I hope). Then you will stop having me basing your brains out with a rock.

Also Orks are a go big or go home type of race. Wagon rush, kan wall, green tide and that just the start. You have got to have a start to a list.

First, koptas don't suck...
Second, i know how you feel, everyone gives his opinion, everyone wants you to put something in and so on... The truth is, as I said, orks have to specialize... And so there are few competitive lists people play... So deff jaw suggestet battlewagon rush list... It is great list... And yes you don't need bikes in it...
But there are other options to explore... You have to find best list for you... One that you will enjoy to play... You can play biker list if you like... Or kanz wall... They are all good and fun armies to play... So look around a bit, and then decide....

i agree with most of that, but imo keep the koptas.
deff rolla spam is way better than trukks, but koptas can be some great tank kill turn 1

Chinchilla wrote:First, koptas don't suck...

This. There ain't a vehicle that's safe from the first-turn scout/move/charge-stationary-vehicle. If you don't get the first turn, hide them and wait for the opponent to make some hard choices if he doesn't want to be in range of your TL rokkits, they are always useful, just that they're incredible pressure for your opponent when you have the first turn.

Chinchilla wrote:Second, i know how you feel, everyone gives his opinion, everyone wants you to put something in and so on... The truth is, as I said, orks have to specialize... And so there are few competitive lists people play... So deff jaw suggestet battlewagon rush list... It is great list... And yes you don't need bikes in it...
But there are other options to explore... You have to find best list for you... One that you will enjoy to play... You can play biker list if you like... Or kanz wall... They are all good and fun armies to play... So look around a bit, and then decide....

And this. I know playing the competitive mech Eldar doesn't float my boat. At all. So I made a list(with the help of good Dakka dakka folks) that I think will be fun to play and still be good enough to give me a chance at winning a game against one of those cookie-cutter competitive army, if I employ my tactics right. The point is, if you like bikes, then go ahead and play a bike army. You can still fill in weak areas of the list(anti-tank, anti-infantry, etc) with other stuff, like Koptas, Lootas, etc, without your list suffering a major disadvantage compared to the more commonly played Ork armies out there.

Big Mek needs a burna really. If the Big Mek is blown out his transport target him in c.c and he's dead without any defense. Any vehicles close by or he could jump into are now unprotected because your defenseless Big Mek is dead. Bad times.

I must say i don't understand difference in survivability between mek with and without burna....

Chinchilla wrote:I must say i don't understand difference in survivability between mek with and without burna....

Yea theres not much. unless you survive attacks against armies with +4 I the burna wont do much

Chinchilla wrote:I must say i don't understand difference in survivability between mek with and without burna....

Mek attacks enemy gets no armour save, bye-bye enemy Mek free to do whatever. Mek has no power weap then enemy gets armour save and keeps Mek locked in combat to batter him again.

Also, initiative isn't always a massive issue. If you're tough enough and got a decent save to take the pain then you'll be ok.

The point of the Big Mek is to protect vehicles and he cannot do that when dead and with a power weap can fight of his attackers. The Meks weakness is c.c, but with a burna people will think twice. What you're saying is once the Mek is out toss him to the wolves because he'll die, if he dies and you've got transport left you telling me you don't want KFF save on them? Because I do, even if the Big Mek is on foot or not.

He's poor in cc... Have you seen his stats? He'll die anyways.. With or without power weapon...

It's exactly the same deal with the Eldar Farseer, who is arguably more dangerous in CC(less T, but 3 wounds and a weapon that wounds on 2+). If he's caught out of a vehicle or out of the footslogging bubble, he's dead. Even if he had 5 Wounds, T5 and five attacks with a power weapon and rerollable inv saves, he'd still die. He's just too important to be left alive. So I'd just be really careful about not getting him out in the open in the first place. If it happens, he's dead in any case scenario.

Chinchilla wrote:He's poor in cc... Have you seen his stats? He'll die anyways.. With or without power weapon...

No of course I haven't seen his stats, only put him in my list and don't look at his profile....... that's e-sacarasm btw in case you didn't get that and if the Big Mek is poor in c.c then so are Nobz as Nobz get the same profile...

It's exactly the same deal with the Eldar Farseer, who is arguably more dangerous in CC(less T, but 3 wounds and a weapon that wounds on 2+). If he's caught out of a vehicle or out of the footslogging bubble, he's dead. Even if he had 5 Wounds, T5 and five attacks with a power weapon and rerollable inv saves, he'd still die. He's just too important to be left alive. So I'd just be really careful about not getting him out in the open in the first place. If it happens, he's dead in any case scenario.

What? A Farseer is T3 sure he wounds on a 2+ but he has few attacks, 2 if I remember right and is S3 and that's not a power weapon. Big Mek is better strength and toughness and has a power weapon.

I think pretty much majority of Ork stuff caught outside numbers is dead, what you're saying applies to everything so kind of pointless point, if a Warboss is on his own he will die too. My point is in combat, when in a horde, is the Meks achilles heel. Already explained this. You cannot help him being out in the open because his Wagon his high priority target, how do you stop a KFF? Torrent the Wagon get the Mek out and assault, target the Mek in c.c and kill it - no more KFF. But with a burna can fight things off. Said this all already. But with a power weapon can fight off attackers - without, will die. Big Mek dies no KFF for anything else. So what do you want dead Mek and lose all advantage for Wagons or have the Big Mek survive? I know I want my Big Mek to survive and have KFF on this vehicles as long as possible, not piss in the wind when the Big Mek is out a transport and valuable and just let him die. This will be the last time I'm repeating myself as feels like I'm talking to the wall, if you want your Big Mek to die then fine, but in close combat a burna will fight off the attackers and help the B.M survive and still be a benefit to the army - without the Big Mek it's easier to pop vehicles and you want him alive as possible, not die in c.c.

mercer wrote:No of course I haven't seen his stats, only put him in my list and don't look at his profile....... that's e-sacarasm btw in case you didn't get that and if the Big Mek is poor in c.c then so are Nobz as Nobz get the same profile...

Nobz come in a mob of 5-10, quite possibly have FNP and inv save and can't be singled out.

What? A Farseer is T3 sure he wounds on a 2+ but he has few attacks, 2 if I remember right and is S3 and that's not a power weapon. Big Mek is better strength and toughness and has a power weapon.

This is entirely beside the point, as even if he was three times more dangerous, he'd still be singled out and died. Oh and he happens to have a (possibly rerollable) 4+ inv, which makes all the difference in the world.

I think pretty much majority of Ork stuff caught outside numbers is dead, what you're saying applies to everything so kind of pointless point, if a Warboss is on his own he will die too. My point is in combat, when in a horde, is the Meks achilles heel. Already explained this. You cannot help him being out in the open because his Wagon his high priority target, how do you stop a KFF? Torrent the Wagon get the Mek out and assault, target the Mek in c.c and kill it - no more KFF. But with a burna can fight things off..

His initiative is 3. That should be enough of a case-in-point to end this discussion, but to elaborate...even a regular 5-man combat tactical squad will usually kill him on the charge. 4's to hit, 4's to wound, 2 attacks, 2 wounds with only 6+ save. Let's assume they don't have a PF sarge in the squad. Big Mek somehow survives and strikes back. 4's to hit with 3 attacks means 1, at most 2 hit. Then he needs 4s to wound, which means 0.75 dead marines. Not necessarily even one dead Marine. For a 20 point burna on a model that should never even enter CC.

This will be the last time I'm repeating myself as feels like I'm talking to the wall, if you want your Big Mek to die then fine, but in close combat a burna will fight off the attackers and help the B.M survive and still be a benefit to the army - without the Big Mek it's easier to pop vehicles and you want him alive as possible, not die in c.c.

Yup, that's why you put him in the biggest, baddest basket in your army. A 14 AV basket with a constant cover save. That's all the reassurance of his safety anyone should ever need. Cos chances are, even with that burna, he'll most likely never get to use it anyway. That's the thing. If your opponent has half a working brain, your Big Mek will never get to swing his burna. I know he certainly wouldn't swing it against my Eldar and I'm as new a player as they come.

Araenion wrote:

mercer wrote:No of course I haven't seen his stats, only put him in my list and don't look at his profile....... that's e-sacarasm btw in case you didn't get that and if the Big Mek is poor in c.c then so are Nobz as Nobz get the same profile...

Nobz come in a mob of 5-10, quite possibly have FNP and inv save and can't be singled out.

Big Mek goes with Nobz gets FnP and has cybork body or goes with Boyz cannot be shoot at, can only be single out, which is a weakness, as already mentioned

What? A Farseer is T3 sure he wounds on a 2+ but he has few attacks, 2 if I remember right and is S3 and that's not a power weapon. Big Mek is better strength and toughness and has a power weapon.

This is entirely beside the point, as even if he was three times more dangerous, he'd still be singled out and died. Oh and he happens to have a (possibly rerollable) 4+ inv, which makes all the difference in the world.

If this is beside the point why was it mentioned? Farseers invulnerable is only re-rollable for fortune if I remember right, which is sort of like FnP. Kinda the same as a Big Mek with 5+ invulnerable and FnP (if FnP applies)

I think pretty much majority of Ork stuff caught outside numbers is dead, what you're saying applies to everything so kind of pointless point, if a Warboss is on his own he will die too. My point is in combat, when in a horde, is the Meks achilles heel. Already explained this. You cannot help him being out in the open because his Wagon his high priority target, how do you stop a KFF? Torrent the Wagon get the Mek out and assault, target the Mek in c.c and kill it - no more KFF. But with a burna can fight things off..

His initiative is 3. That should be enough of a case-in-point to end this discussion, but to elaborate...even a regular 5-man combat tactical squad will usually kill him on the charge. 4's to hit, 4's to wound, 2 attacks, 2 wounds with only 6+ save. Let's assume they don't have a PF sarge in the squad. Big Mek somehow survives and strikes back. 4's to hit with 3 attacks means 1, at most 2 hit. Then he needs 4s to wound, which means 0.75 dead marines. Not necessarily even one dead Marine. For a 20 point burna on a model that should never even enter CC.

He's T4 and 2 wounds so can take punishment. All that Tactical squad need to put all attacks on him and as already mentioned, cybork body. Who is honestly going to keep 6+ save? If you're going to compare, then compare with wargear what the Mek would take and not naked.

Already said why would be in c.c....said it several times actually.

This will be the last time I'm repeating myself as feels like I'm talking to the wall, if you want your Big Mek to die then fine, but in close combat a burna will fight off the attackers and help the B.M survive and still be a benefit to the army - without the Big Mek it's easier to pop vehicles and you want him alive as possible, not die in c.c.

Yup, that's why you put him in the biggest, baddest basket in your army. A 14 AV basket with a constant cover save. That's all the reassurance of his safety anyone should ever need. Cos chances are, even with that burna, he'll most likely never get to use it anyway. That's the thing. If your opponent has half a working brain, your Big Mek will never get to swing his burna. I know he certainly wouldn't swing it against my Eldar and I'm as new a player as they come.

Yup and you torrent that and it pops assault the Big Mek and he dies no KFF save for ANY OTHER VEHICLES. Already said this several times. Like I siad, if you want your Big Mek to die and you get no saves no your remaining vehicles, then fine, that's your choice.

Dude, my Big Mek took 20 Daemonette attacks and survived. That shows up gakky mathshammer and your Eldar too.

I'm going to leave this as is as clearly talking to the wall. If you don't fancy a burna then fine, but as you said you're a new player so probably haven't got the experience to comment much about burna.

Yes, I'm a new player. And I don't mind admitting there are things that can't be properly explained by theorising, but insofar, you've not put up a single practical example where your Big Mek with a Burna survived because he had that Burna. So only thing I can rely upon is my own logic.

Farseer point was brought up not because he is better in CC, but because he's another example of a prime target that simply cannot be left outside of a vehicle or a Seer council.

And the Marine charge example was not mathhammer, it was just some basic musings based on what would happen on AVERAGE. Anything can happen in a game of dice, but since that's so random and unreliable, you don't make arguments based on that.

Anyway, in lack of any sort of evidence other than my theoretical one, I remain unconvinced, but I'll concede the point to you, seeing as you're the more experienced one.

Consider dropping the Nobs off the bikes and taking at least a second Battlewagon as a dedicated Transport. Orks work best when built around a single concept, ask any experienced player and they will tell you that trying to make a mish-mashy/hybrid list is purely for fun games, in competitive play you will be brutally owned.

Drop the Stikkbomb chukkas, they're crap and you're going to be hitting last against MEQ or at the same time with IG anyway. Get a Deff Rolla for the wagons. Deff Rollas, I know some people here disagree a bit, can do some serious damage to armour. Not all the time, but ramming an Landraider or a Monolith and exploding it is one of the most satisfying things one can do in 40k.

Also in terms of points, its cheaper to use an Ammo Runt and not expend it than to equip Bosspoles or other wargear, if you add another PK Nob to the Nob squad just give him a runt to diversify.

Ok, Plague Marines. My Big Mek is out the Wagon, faces Plague Marines, power weap cuts up Plague Marines which go at the same time, Big Mek survives Plague Marines dead. Wagons within 6" near the Mek still get cover from lascannons from annoying Obliterators. If the Big Mek hadn't got a power weap those Plague Marines would still need 5+ to wound but would get a save and FnP, power weap doesn't allow that and those vehicles by the Mek wouldn't get a save from those Obliterator lascannons. Already explained this already, do I really have to put up a play by play?

I agree about the Farseer not being left alone, that applies to a lot of characters though, so still pointless. And if it's beside the point why mention it?

Exactly, dice game. Mathshammer doesn't happen in the real world.

I didn't like burnas before TBH. I tried them and work well and my Big Mek has survived several times thanks to those power weapons attacks taking out those against him. I presume you play Orks (you did say Eldar) so all I can suggest is try it as it appears you don't. Like everything, it's opinion, if you like it you like it if you don't then you don't.

Mercer you talk about the advantages of adding a Burna, I'm presuming you're also Cyborking the Mek or doing something to fix the horrors of a 6+ armour save?

Yes. Cybork mate. Wouldn't leave home without it.