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Defenders React dictates you must move as far as possible each turn to get into combat once a combat has begun.

To take my example to the extreme: we have a completely blank board on top of an infinite table. We have a 50 man conscript squad in one big line, and 2 enemy squads assault each end in the enemy assault phase. It is my understanding that the conscripts would Defenders React 6 towards the first assault launched, but what happens when the enemy squad at the other end of the daisy chain assaults? And if something DOES happen, what happens in the ensuing turns?

Doesnt the Defenders React rule dictate you must leave one of these combats to join the other one.


To take things to a game breaking level, the 50 man conscript squad suffers 10 casualties from the combat, and for some reason the controlling player removes them from the center of the line. The conscripts MUST retain coherency (or do they automatically break / die / teleport if they cannot regain coherency) so do they move out of combat? Or just SPLIT or what.

The reason I ask is because a) I cannot find a defining rule and B) I believe something on a smaller scale could happen in one of my own games.

I do something like this quite often where I hit a tac squad from either end so they don't end up with as many guys in cc with my orks.

What would happen is something like this. You have 50 guys in a long row all 2" apart. We'll say a single model hits one end and a single model hits the other end. Now all three squads are in combat and it's the defenders react stage.

The defender now chooses one model that is not yet in base contact with the enemy (p34 defenders react) and moves it into base contact with the enemy if possible. Then you work your way through all the unengaged models one by one with the restrictions that are on the previous page. The first one is the important one. It says you must end in coherency with a model that has already moved. So that first model you move moves into base contact. Then all your other models move, following the restrictions at the bottom all ending up in coherency with a guy who already moved.

What this will give you is a blob around the 1 end of the chain, a long chain spread out to the other end, where there is a gap and then all the models that were in base contact at the other end of the chain.

When you pile in at the end of the round you would do the same thing as you just did there.

Now if you lost a bunch of guys in the center then you can't move guys so that they are in coherency with a guy who already moved. This isn't a big problem because if you look at the coherency rules on page 12 it tells you if something like this happens you just have to move them so they can move into coherency in the next movement phase or if that isn't possible for some reason so that they can move into coherency as soon as they have the opportunity.

Firstly, you are talking about Defenders React, not Consolidation.

Getting names right is VERY important.

Secondly, all that happens is you end up being forced to move back into coherency in subsequent movement phases.

Or the game breaks. -shrug-

The Field will spontaneously burst into flames melting all the models on it. Because that right there is one messy situation.


Though gwar makes a point. you would move models to react, but once battle is over. if your unit is not in coherency it MUST move towards each other until it is.

Not only that, it moves so as to be in cohesion as soon as possible. That means that you have to move directly towards the other models. No going diagonal and meeting at an objective.

FIrstly you defenders react at the same time, after all assault moves have been made.

Secondly yes, you can be pulled apart, out of coherency, fot this.

looks like brock has it right to me, every defender will have to move towards the first model to make a defenders react move to keep within the restrictions on coherency

I see being pulled out of coherency as the only option.

Think about it in terms of video games (as unrealistic the comparisons are...)

The squad being assaulted will most likely split their manpower and charge the enemy at either side of them. In DoW, troops were scattered by blasts, jump packs, and being hit by large weapons. BUT, as soon as the men are done fighting in the giant dissaray of melee combat, they resume their formation as if nothing had happened.

It never states (in my knowledge) that breaking coherency by demand of the situation is prohibited, but you must do your best to keep the unit in coherency.

"The most important one is that each model must
end its assault move in coherency with another
model in its own unit that has already moved."

Most people consider models already engaged as having moved- so, any model moving into coherency with one of the already engaged models is following the most important rule for assault moves.

"If possible, the model must move by the shortest
route available into contact with any enemy
model within reach that is not already in base-to-
base contact with an assaulting model."

So, moving to contact on either (both!) sides of the combat are okay.

"If there are no such models in reach, then the
model must move by the shortest route available
into contact with an enemy model that is already
in base-to-base contact with one or more
assaulting models"

Ditto.

"If a model cannot reach any enemy models, it
must try to move within 2" of one of its unit’s
models that is already in base contact with an
enemy."

Sounds good.

"If this is impossible, then the assaulting model
must simply maintain unit coherency."

Ah- here's the requirement for unit coherency. Unit coherency only comes into play IF ALL OTHER CONDITIONS ARE IMPOSSIBLE. For an assaulting unit, these rules will require the assaulting unit to maintain coherency- for a defender, fulfilling the first four conditions can lead to breaking the fifth-- but, that's okay, because the 5th condition only comes into play if a model cannot meet any of the first 4.

TL;DR:

The daisy-chained unit MUST move into combat with both assaulting units, and will end up out of coherency.

kartofelkopf wrote:"The most important one is that each model must
end its assault move in coherency with another
model in its own unit that has already moved."

Most people consider models already engaged as having moved- so, any model moving into coherency with one of the already engaged models is following the most important rule for assault moves.

But that isn't what the rules tell you. The rules tell you you can move models that aren't engaged. From page 34 in the defenders react section, "After all assault moves have been made, the player controlling the units that have been assaulted this turn must move any member of these units that is not yet in base contact with a foe towards the enemy." The models in base contact haven't moved. The only model that gets the exception to the coherency with previously moved models is the first one you move and that isn't your engaged models. The rules actually determine what end you are going towards. Since it follows the moving assaulting models rules, "The model selected must be the one closest to the enemy." So out of all your models that aren't in base to base contact find the one closest to the enemy. That is the first one you move. Then the others move, following the rules.

kartofelkopf wrote:

"If possible, the model must move by the shortest
route available into contact with any enemy
model within reach that is not already in base-to-
base contact with an assaulting model."

So, moving to contact on either (both!) sides of the combat are okay.

You don't get to move to both ends. You move toward the first model you moved

kartofelkopf wrote:

"If there are no such models in reach, then the
model must move by the shortest route available
into contact with an enemy model that is already
in base-to-base contact with one or more
assaulting models"

Ditto.

"If a model cannot reach any enemy models, it
must try to move within 2" of one of its unit’s
models that is already in base contact with an
enemy."

Sounds good.

"If this is impossible, then the assaulting model
must simply maintain unit coherency."

Ah- here's the requirement for unit coherency. Unit coherency only comes into play IF ALL OTHER CONDITIONS ARE IMPOSSIBLE. For an assaulting unit, these rules will require the assaulting unit to maintain coherency- for a defender, fulfilling the first four conditions can lead to breaking the fifth-- but, that's okay, because the 5th condition only comes into play if a model cannot meet any of the first 4.

TL;DR:

The daisy-chained unit MUST move into combat with both assaulting units, and will end up out of coherency.

The daisy-chained unit will move towards one end of it's chain. The models that were assaulted at the opposite end will get left behind and the unit will be out of coherency.

ASsault move /- defenders react. The requirement to remain in coherency from the assault move section does NOT apply to defenders react.

nosferatu1001 wrote:ASsault move /- defenders react. The requirement to remain in coherency from the assault move section does NOT apply to defenders react.

Sure it does. From defenders react, "These models move up to 6" in an attempt to move into base contact with an enemy. This follows the same rules as moving assaulting models, except that models are not slowed by difficult terrain and do not take dangerous terrain tests."

You use the exact same rules for defenders react moves as you do for assault moves. The defenders react limits you to only moving your models that aren't in base to base and then lets you ignore difficult and dangerous terrain, and prevents you from multi-assaulting. Otherwise you follow the exact same rules, including coherency.

Still have to maintain coherency.

You would shift the line 6" towards the first assault.
If the second assault squad is still within charging distance, then you would shift any unengaged models UP TO 6" towards the second assault, but you need to maintain coherency.

Yes, this does in effect, keep a few models out of combat.

But also, you'd keep a similar number of models out of combat by not assaulting them...

Big conga lines are just not effective when assaulted.

nosferatu1001 wrote:The requirement to remain in coherency from the assault move section does NOT apply to defenders react.

Based on what? The Defenders React section says that it follows all of the same rules as moving models that are assaulting.


Reacting models have to be moved so that they are in coherency with a model that has already moved, because that's one of the rules that applies to assaulting models.

The rules are unclear on how to apply that to the first Reacting model to move... although the general interpretation from my experience is that moving your Reacting models into coherency with a model that has been assaulted (rather than that actually moved, specifically) fits the bill closely enough.

The first model to move would follow the rules for the first model to move in the assaulting section. He doesn't have to move into coherency with someone who has moved because nobody has moved yet. He would also have the additional restriction of being the closest model to the opponents unit.

@BrockRitcey
|Curse you for making sense! But... yeah. Reading through it that way seems to be correct. It still leads to a break in coherency for the unit as the middle models shift one way or the other- a little quirk of the rules, I guess.

Once again, an inconclusive thread.

In conclusive how?

"This follows the same rules as moving assaulting models,"
"Assaulting units must attempt to engage as many opposing models as possible with as many of their models as possible – no holding back!"

So no breaking coherency to reach something, end as many as possible in btb and move the closest to closest.

So following RAW.
'DEFENDING MULTIPLE ENEMY UNITS
As usual the closest defending model must be moved to contact the closest model in the enemy unit with which the assault was declared. Then remaining models can assault models belonging to other enemy units, as long as they keep following the rules for moving assaulting models. Remember that the defending unit is not allowed to break its unit coherency, and this will obviously limit the potential for this kind of defence.'