Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm just starting to paint a 3rd SS Totenkopf force for flames of war from around July/August 1944. I've been having some trouble doing research (beyond basic historical descriptions) and finding photos of the various vehicles (including support vehicles) and infantry from that specific point. Are there any websites out there that you are aware of which have an easily searchable index of such photos? To help me learn to research these things more efficiently, what sort of steps would you generally take to research this sort of thing?

Thanks for any input!

Well, I have been "into" the 2nd world war for the last 30 years and in that time have complied a truly massive library on the subject (in particular the Germans), so Im quite lucky. Online I would suggest the "Axis History Forum" would be a good place to start. If you fancy spending some money I suggest "Hitlers Teutonic Knights" and "Hitlers Samurai" as fairly inexpensive books.

A few forums worth visiting, Axis History as Ald suggests is a good one.

I personally wouldnt get the books mentioned as they have awful potted history of Waffen-SS formations, though the pics are worthwhile.

A good book to get is Zaloga's picture book 'Eastern Front' which is full of colour plates of vehicles...



It covers markings etc for all combatants as well as common colour schemes.

If you really want to cover the division in photo detail then the only source is Charles Trangs book...



Well worth the money and chock full of pics.

For a cheaper alternative, Concord do "MARCH OF THE DEATH’S HEAD DIVISION" which covers Totenkopf during Poland in 1944 and Hungary in 1945...




Most vehicles of that period would have been in Dunkel Gelg with Oliv Grun and Rot Brun oversprays, either both colours over the Dunkel Gelb, or just one, or in the cases of support vehicles, just left in plain dunkel gelb.

This picture from late-43 seems to show the vehicles in plain yellow (though it could be a winter white wash scheme!)...




This picture is of 3rd SS Panthers in 1944 and shows them in Dunkel Gelb with overspray of what appears to be Oliv Grun - Notice the truck is also oversprayed in this instance...



And a colour version...




Hope thats of some use.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could also try searching for '1944 Summer' on the Bundesarchiv... That may turn up some interesting items.

Wow, thanks to the both of you for all the help. I've had a nose around the Axis History forum and it seems good (though a little hard to navigate as I am not used to the structure).

I've also ordered Hitler's Teutonic Knights, Totenkopf and Eastern Front: Armour, Camouflage and Markings, 1941-45 so look forward to getting those as reference. Historical models are cheap compared to the supporting infrastructure required to paint them! (books, airbrush, large range of paints, etc).

Thanks again!

Well you will love the Totenkopf book.

Its an amazing photo resource of the division. I have most of that series of Heimdal divisional books and they are all well worth the money... and some do get a little pricey!

With those books you will be pretty much sorted.

Big P wrote: I personally wouldnt get the books mentioned as they have awful potted history of Waffen-SS formations, though the pics are worthwhile.

I would agree that Mr. Quarrie books ain't that good from a text point of view (and lets not talk about his suspect political views) , however they do contain a huge amount of photo's, are readily available and relatively cheap.

Another good for the money book is "Waffen SS" by Brian L. Davies (Blandford war photo files) ISBN 0-7137-1528-6. Just checked Amazon and they've got some for £2.99, Bargin.

Yup... They are good for photos alright. We shan't mention Williamson then or Simpsons 'Biopic' on Wittmann... The old glamourous SS Bandwagen is still going strong... I suspect Aldramelech that you are old enough like em to have seen the change in books about the Waffen-SS from being 'evil incarnate' to 'chivalrous knights'...

Davies book is worth getting.

I have all three books in this series, which I've found useful.

http://www.amazon.com/Panzer-Colors-Camouflage-1939-1945-Specials/dp/0897470575/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283862258&sr=8-3

ZF-

Big P wrote:Yup... They are good for photos alright. We shan't mention Williamson then or Simpsons 'Biopic' on Wittmann... The old glamourous SS Bandwagen is still going strong... I suspect Aldramelech that you are old enough like em to have seen the change in books about the Waffen-SS from being 'evil incarnate' to 'chivalrous knights'...

Davies book is worth getting.

Its always been that way though hasn't it. There have always been people out there who are just a little bit too "Into it". You know the type, you get talking with them and everything seems fine, you share a common interest and they seem like a nice enough chap right up until they ask you if you would like to go back to their's and look at their Zyklon B canister

The unfortunate thing about it is that people like me with a genuine interest in all aspects of the 2WW get tarred with the same brush as people who think its OK to dress up in 1st SS uniform and walk around at Military shows.

You met him too!

I was once actually offered a can of Zyklon-B (used) by a seller at a militaria fair back in the 90's when all manner of stuff was flooding out after the fall of the Soviet Union.

Unsurprisingly I didnt take him up on the offer, nor the half a skeletal torso he had in a Waffen-SS panzerwrap in a suitcase... He had dug it up the previous week so he told me. No thought of sending the tags to the German authorities so they could look for any relatives. Went on all the time back then, loads of stuff flooded the market, and not all of it was of a savoury nature.

Im afraid its the same in wargaming.

I have Waffen-SS and SD figures, so therefore, to some gamers, I must be supporter of Nazi ideology and racial purity. Thing is, its a bit hard to play WW2 without them... My poor old British Airborne would be most annoyed to turn up at Arnhem and have nothing to shoot at (or maybe not of course). Of course I always find it a little laughable that some 'wars' are morally better to game than others!

Zad Fnark, that also looks interesting, I'll pick that up if I dont get enough out of the three books I've already ordered, thanks!

As for the Waffen-SS comments, I am looking forward to seeing how messed up my amazon profiling and recommended products becomes. 'From your past purchases, we thought you might like to try... Mein Kampf', etc.

As for why I personally went for Waffen-SS, there are three reasons:
1. I love the Battlefront model for the Sturmmörser Tiger and only Waffen-SS FoW lists feature them at the moment.
2. I'm not a huge fan of horde armies, and the Waffen-SS are elite enough in the game that I can get a decent points value with a decent mix of troops without having to paint too many.
3. I already have a British army and wanted the worst of the worst for them to be able to fight against when my opponent has no late war army of their own.

Im also a keen Military Aviation enthuiast and similar things go on there too. "Finger bone of a Spitfire Pilot Guv?"

I dont know who's sicker, someone who sells stuff like that or someone who buys stuff like that.

Your right about figures though, although I do draw the line at Nazi Space Marines! lol.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

legoburner wrote:Zad Fnark, that also looks interesting, I'll pick that up if I dont get enough out of the three books I've already ordered, thanks!

As for the Waffen-SS comments, I am looking forward to seeing how messed up my amazon profiling and recommended products becomes. 'From your past purchases, we thought you might like to try... Mein Kampf', etc.

As for why I personally went for Waffen-SS, there are three reasons:
1. I love the Battlefront model for the Sturmmörser Tiger and only Waffen-SS FoW lists feature them at the moment.
2. I'm not a huge fan of horde armies, and the Waffen-SS are elite enough in the game that I can get a decent points value with a decent mix of troops without having to paint too many.
3. I already have a British army and wanted the worst of the worst for them to be able to fight against when my opponent has no late war army of their own.

Id do an SS army too, only I cant be bothered to do camo on 15mm infantry, lifes too short lol

I use the books i own on the said subject. I also use the local war museum, witch is very helpful to the smal cluster of FoW gamers here in Trondheim. And when it came to my Panzer grenadiers I used history books and the web

Got all 3 books in my possession now so just thought I'd do a quick followup:
Hitler's Teutonic Knights is pretty good for pictures and has a few very useful things in it. The book also looks fairly offensive being mainly black and red with giant 'Hitler' and 'SS' text on it, so looking forward to leaving it on the coffee table for select houseguests to notice and start wondering about me

The eastern front is very good though it does seem a little dated (published in the early 80s). Lots of good overall references so will find a fine place in my library. Really good minor powers stuff as well (especially Finland and Hungary). I want to do a late war russian tank army at some point as well so this will be very useful for that too.

Totenkopf is exactly what I needed for this project though and seems to have pictures of basically everything I am doing, very pleasing

Thanks again for all the recommendations!

Glad you found them useful.


Im working through this one at present...

This is one of those areas where there's a lot of crossover with the more "purist" modeling crowd.

I've visited this site daily for the last nine years or so.

http://www.hyperscale.com/

Generally on Mondays, the reviews, and articles are more armor-centric. Over the years, I've found lots of stuff here helpful.

Go to the "What's New" button and scroll down.

ZF-