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I was looking through my eldar codex and noticed something interesting about Dire Avengers assaulting:

Let's assume a unit of 10 dire avengers with one diresword/shurikan pistol exarch w/ bladestorm and defend are twelve inches from a squad of 5-6 space wolves (gray hunters, PA wolfguard, whatever). They move within 6" and fire with bladestorm:

2/3 chance to hit * 1/2 chance to wound *1/3 chance of failed 3+ Save * 3 shots per avenger * 9 avengers = 3 dead marines (on average)

Plus the exarch's 5/6 chance to hit *1/2 chance to wound * 1/3 chance of failed save * 2 shots for the exarch = .27777777777 dead marines (on average)

So then the Squad attacks in close combat (and naturally goes first with I5)

1/2 chance to hit * 1/3 chance to wound *1/3 chance of save * 2 attacks per avenger * 9 avengers = 1 dead marine

plus the exarch: 2/3 chance to hit * 1/3 chance to wound * 1 (no saves vs. PW) * 3 attacks for the exarch = 2/3 dead marines.

So before these assault-ish marines even land a blow, you've killed 4.94444444 marines, or essentially five marines. This leaves a squad of five wiped out and one one man left standing in a squad of six. Plus, those remaining would lose an attack because of the defend exarch power.

Does anyone know if this could actually work?

It does. Beautifully.

You didn't give your exarch dual shuricats?! Heresy!

And as with all eldar things, Doom and Guide make it oh so much better.

Here is some great advice on DA powers.

Sure it works. If you focus that many points of something on that few points of something it's bound to work. Go up against 10 Grey Hunters and you're not looking so pretty any more.

This can also backfire pretty quickly on you if your rolling doesn't go as you expect. (I mean, more-so than with other tactics).

I've decimated squads of dire avengers with less than 5 marines on more than one occasion. On top of that, my opponent usually finds he has better uses for those oh-so-versatile shooters elsewhere on the table, than fist to fist with my bulked-up heavy-armoured meat-grinders.

Obviously, the tactic works on paper, but just remember that it's not a vacuum, and it won't always be reliable.

Also, the lack of assault grenades makes the tactic worthless in many situations.

The short of it is that there are *lots* of times that assaulting with something will be beneficial, but there are lots of times that you don't want to bother either.

Yeah this can backfire for so many reasons, for starters 10 Dire Avengers cost more than a 5-6 man squad of Grey Hunters and if even a couple of them survive after you charge in then you could end up losing the combat (as the remaining guys will likely be power weapon/fist or a Wulfen). Against anything larger/tougher then things will end badly as you are probably close enough to be countered and can't even fire the following turn.

On the other side of things 10 Avengers are very easy to kill. Outside of a transport they won't last very long, so even if you do wipe out that entire GH unit you are very exposed to being wiped out yourself in the following turn. Essentially you have to factor in a Serpent to the cost of the unit if you actually expect to use it which puts the cost of the unit close to the cost of two GH units (with transports). For the most part it also removes the possibility of assault which you can use to finish of a squad. This becomes a issue when you can only afford 3-4 scoring units in most lists, you can't really even afford to trade 1-1 with scoring units as most people will have more than you.

Provided you're lucky enough, 5 Da with a Diresword can be a small IC killer, if you're lucky enough to actually wound him. Multi wound models with average leadership are good targets. But that's if you want to use your DA as character hunters

You forgot the part where that 1 grey hunter swings back, kills 3 dire avengers and sweeps the unit ... lol.

I was surprised by a unit of dire avengers once. I charged 10 bikers with furious charge into the unit (and some others), defend, shimmershield + fortune meant I was stuck until my assault termies came to bail my bikers out. Humiliating experience for the might blood angels

Said gray hunter is only getting one attack:

1 attack base + 1 extra CQB Weapon - 1 Defend Exarch Power = 1 attack.

Said attack has a 50% chance to hit, a 66% chance to wound, and then I get a 50% chance to save. Odds of killing an avenger? 1/6 (1/3 if the survivor is a sergeant and would get two attacks).

I acknowledge that this strategy isn't perfect, and that 40k isn't played in a vacuum. Statistics can be an effective indicator of projected army performance, however, and by the numbers the Dire Avengers will kill 4.9444 marines. Sometimes more and sometimes less, but on average 4.9444. As well, I know that the DAs cost more than the hunters, but one of the tactics with Eldar is to strike in one place with overwhelming firepower to compensate for the low model count (can't remember where I read that).

@xxBlazinghostxx: Thanks for the link. I haven't got a farseer yet, but it's next on my list. (As to why, my primary army is tau. They don't have psychers, so I just forgot about them.) And as far as heresy, I didn't know that the extra catapult was the standard. My metagame is CC and MEQ heavy, so bringing the Diresword was second nature to me (My Dark Angels Marine Sergeants ALWAYS have a PW).

One other question though; can an exarch take more than one power? I didn't see anything that said no in the codex, but did I miss something?

Don't forget that Grey Hunters also have counter-attack, so on the turn you assault any survivors will likely be getting two attacks against the unit.

Yes, Exarchs can take more than one power. (p.21, Eldar Codex, "Exarch Powers".)

@willydstyle: Thanks, I actually forgot Counter-Attack. I'll need to remember next time I fight SW.

Lol, the dual shuricats are more common but by no means is it necessary. It's just simply the most versatile and makes good use of the Exarch's high BS. It also just came to me that it suits the DA's role of mid-range shooting.

Diresword is nice.

Shimmershield is pretty good, just cast fortune on that unit and watch your opponent struggle to kill them quickly.

Playing Eldar well is very difficult, and to do it well you must use your army in the way they were designed to be used.
Every eldar unit has its well defined role, and they excel in that role, but perform sub-par when used outside thier role.

Dire Avengers are desgined as small arms fire support, and they excel at that role. There are also many uses for massive small arts fire, which
has its place in any army IMHO.

However, like all Eldar units, they need to be supported with other units that fill their important roles. Use them with a supporting squad to assault the grey hunters on that turn -- such as striking scorpioins.

Do not think about any eldar unit as an indvidual unit, but instead think of them as how they can fit into your entire force.

Maybe my issue is my Tau army. Dire Avengers are so good at assault in comparison maybe I'm losing my perspective as a whole. My issue is that I have non-meq shooty armies in a very MEQ CC heavy metagame, so there are always scenarios in which I need to go into close combat, preferably with a PW. It's not that I try to go into CC, it just happens. So when I saw that Dire Avengers COULD take PW, I did the math and determined that could work, as opposed to determining whether it was the best use of points and units to try and build non CC specialists for CC. I'll probably try squads with both configurations and see which works best on the tabletop.

I'm gonna hafta second labmouse's statement that no eldar unit should be thought of individually. Don't just go charging in with the DAs - bring some banshees or scorpions along for the fun. DA's a re mediocre at best in CC, and against a squad of more than 5 marines, they're going to die painfully without support from a proper CC unit.

Ok, got it. Eldar are only work well as an if the army runs synergistically. Means I have some more ordering to do in the near future. On the plus side, I will definitely not have a scoring unit shortage (I'm looking at 3-4 squads worth of DAs at the moments, with 1 Striking Scorpions, 1 Swooping Hawks, the Battleforce Guardians, an Autarch, one wave serpent, and one falcon. Poor ordering decisions on my part)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To correct my horrendous grammar:Ok, got it: Eldar only work well if the army runs synergistcally.

This tactics is not really viable.
Dire Avengers are a defensive unit, hands down.

You can make them more durable in cc, when the Exarch has defend and shimmershield,
and the unit is accompanied by a Farseer with fortune.