Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys - did some searching but nothing came up so I wanted to run some of these by you guys from a game last night (I had not played in almost two months and am a bit rusty).

1 - A LR has LoS to Daemonettes in front of it. It fires Hurricane Bolters at them, and one Sponson can clearly trace LOS to all but 1 Daemonette. The other can only see 1 Daemonette. Do the Daemonettes receive cover from the second sponson.

2 - A Dreadnought is immobilized facing away from all troops. Can it shoot its heavy flamer 'backwards' to hit the units behind it or must it be able to 'pivot' to face them to have line of sight.

3 - A Librarian casts Null Zone - it is stuck in CC - If the Librarian is killed, when does Null Zone expire?

1) The unit recieves a cover save as 50% of the weapons in the unit grant a cover save.
2) It must have LOS to shoot, basic shooting rules still apply
3) As the power describes - it is not contingent on him being alive.

1) The vehicle's own hull is considered for drawing LoS. They get a cover save.

2) Dreadnoughts, like all vehicles, cannot pivot on the spot if they are immobilized, and their weapons have 45 degree arcs, like hull-mounted weapons. It cannot fire its flamer "backwards" under any circumstances, therefore it cannot fire its flamer if it cannot turn to face the intended target.

3) Null Zone expires at the end of the player turn, regardless of whether or not the Librarian is killed. Nothing in the Space Marine codex says otherwise.

Thanks for the quick response, I was the Daemon player in this case and was accused of bending the rules a bit, but I was pretty sure that was the way it worked.

It may be in the codex, if so advise me I own a SM codex but it is at home, Null Zone is measured from the librarian himself - if he is dead I measure from....

You have nothing from which to measure, so the power in effect doesn't work.

But that's a different thing from it having expired.

Okay that was my question, although I certainly did not make the distinction between its expiration and measuring.

The follow up would then be - are all combats 'technically' simultaneous. Which means a Librarian killed at initiative 5 in one combat would mean any saves required at initiative 4 elsewhere are not subject to re-rolls.

No, like shooting each discrete combat is sequential - whoile all attacks at I1 within the combat are simultaneous, they come before I10 attacks in the combat you resolve next.

1. The second group of d'ettes get a save since more than 50% of them are in cover/out of LOS

2. Templates are measured from the tip of the firing weapon and it's 'firing arcs' are defined by the range of motion of the model. Since a dread can rotate it's arms to aim behind itself, it can fire.

3. The power says "for the remainder of the player turn" whether the libby's on the table or not.


I step away from the computer for one minute and get ninja'd like 5 times...

Gavin Thorne wrote:2. Templates are measured from the tip of the firing weapon and it's 'firing arcs' are defined by the range of motion of the model. Since a dread can rotate it's arms to aim behind itself, it can fire.

Not if it's immobilized. And the arms themselves cannot rotate. It's explicitly stated in the "Walkers" entry in the rulebook that a walker's weapons have 45 degree firing arcs like hull-mounted weapons. You have to be able to pivot the walker to hit a target behind it. If you cannot pivot the walker, you cannot hit the target.

nosferatu1001 wrote:1) The unit recieves a cover save as 50% of the weapons in the unit grant a cover save.
2) It must have LOS to shoot, basic shooting rules still apply
3) As the power describes - it is not contingent on him being alive.

If, say, the LR did not move, and could thus also fire its TLAC, and one Hurricane Bolter and the TLAC could see > 50% of the models, and the other Hurricane bolter could only see one or two models, they wouldn't get a cover save, correct?

SaintHazard wrote:

Gavin Thorne wrote:2. Templates are measured from the tip of the firing weapon and it's 'firing arcs' are defined by the range of motion of the model. Since a dread can rotate it's arms to aim behind itself, it can fire.

Not if it's immobilized. And the arms themselves cannot rotate. It's explicitly stated in the "Walkers" entry in the rulebook that a walker's weapons have 45 degree firing arcs like hull-mounted weapons. You have to be able to pivot the walker to hit a target behind it. If you cannot pivot the walker, you cannot hit the target.

Thanks for clarifying that for me. I've allowed other players to swivel their dread arms for rear shots to my detriment, so I'll be on the lookout for it in the future.

If less than 50% of the firing weapons dont give a cover save, the unit does not get a cover save.

The next question then is..who decides which combats get resolved first?

The person whose turn it is.

Gotcha, thanks Nos and company.

nosferatu1001 wrote:If less than 50% of the firing weapons dont give a cover save, the unit does not get a cover save.

where is that stated? I would like to show my mate this rule (he loves to ignore his own LR as cover for its guns)

SaintHazard wrote:You have nothing from which to measure, so the power in effect doesn't work.

But that's a different thing from it having expired.

LOL it's kinda like being right is different from being wrong

Deathreaper - it is a corollary to how cover is generated, which required 50% or more to grant one.

DeathReaper wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:If less than 50% of the firing weapons dont give a cover save, the unit does not get a cover save.

where is that stated? I would like to show my mate this rule (he loves to ignore his own LR as cover for its guns)

Page 58, Vehicle Weapons & Line of Sight

nice Thanks.