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Made in us
Raging Ravener



Raleigh, NC

-Question 1-
Let's say I have a warlock engineer in a unit of slaves that has just declared a charge, and was successful. If the warlock engineer has the following items, can he use them while his unit is engaged in combat? Why or why not?

Doom Rocket
Death Globe
Brass Orb

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2010/09/09 04:29:04


TL : DR - Shorthand for ""Hi, I am a miserable cretin of the Internet that must be spoon-fed pictures and factoids or I will piss myself."

 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




He may not shoot while engaged in close combat, so no.

Being in slaves doesnt help if you are thinking "expendable" appliies - the combat is no longer solely composed of slaves.
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener



Raleigh, NC

Alright, assuming we can prove the above items count as "shooting", I'll go with that answer.

They all get used in the shooting phase but none of them has a weapon profile.
You also don't select a unit to target, you simply pick a direction and distance and then scatter or roll for distance traveled.

I'm not trying to cheat or avoid the rules in any way. I understand GW sucks at writing air-tight rules.

I'm looking for a real answer with something other than opinion backing it up.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/09/09 20:35:35


TL : DR - Shorthand for ""Hi, I am a miserable cretin of the Internet that must be spoon-fed pictures and factoids or I will piss myself."

 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




They have a weapon profile - the Doom rocket has variable range, large blast profile. Just as an example.
Just because its not written in a neat line doesnt alter it being shooting. Additionally if you want to claim the Doom Rocket ISNT shooting, you may struggle to explain the FAQ entry stating that you may use the rocket in a stand and SHOOT reaction.

Sorry the rules dont provide the answers you wanted.
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener



Raleigh, NC

Thanks for the responses so far Nos, seems like it's just you and I. Let me lay out the exact part I'm having trouble with and you let me know if it changes your mind at all.

Brass Orb (Enchanted Item) - One use only. In the Shooting phase the user can throw the orb. Place the small round template with its centre anywhere within 8" of the character. Scatter the template as you would for a stone thrower shot. Models touched by the template must take an Initiative test or be destroyed, with no saves (of any kind) allowed.

You don't follow the order of the shooting turn. You don't nominate a target, you don't roll to hit and the model that is equipped with it doesn't have a missile weapon (per se) to fire. The only thing that indicates to me that it COULD be a shooting attack is that it takes place in the shooting phase.

So what I'm asking you, or anyone else, is this: What is it about that enchanted item that makes it follow the rules for missile weapons or really a weapon of any kind? It seems to me that it's simply a piece of wargear that when used, has to be used in the shooting phase.

TL : DR - Shorthand for ""Hi, I am a miserable cretin of the Internet that must be spoon-fed pictures and factoids or I will piss myself."

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The shooting phase is a nice clue as well as the "like a stone thrower shot." Another clue is the FAQ on similar effects in the WoC book. But yea, it's not 100% cut and dry... but it's pretty freaking clear.
   
Made in ca
Dangerous Bestigor





Alberta

I think the problem here might be that the term "shooting" is misleading, these attacks are not shooting like a gun or a bow but they are "Ranged Attacks", which act like shooting.

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Made in us
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot



Provo, UT

You could also look at it like this. The ruby ring of ruin is an enchanted item with a bound spell. It's not a spell you roll for, but it's a spell you use in the magic phase.

I think it's clear that if it says, used in the shooting phase, it's a shooting weapon.

my 2 cents.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/09/10 16:15:49


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I think George Orwell was unknowingly describing 40K.

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Made in us
Raging Ravener



Raleigh, NC

Ok, so general consensus so far is: If an attack takes place in the shooting phase, it follows the rules of the shooting phase regardless of ambiguities.

Thanks. WFB noob here and I'm still trying to get a handle on things. I appreciate all the responses.

TL : DR - Shorthand for ""Hi, I am a miserable cretin of the Internet that must be spoon-fed pictures and factoids or I will piss myself."

 
   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok




Philadelphia, PA

Also remember the Warlock does not have any abilities that let him use a ranged attack in combat. The examples you laid out do not have any specifics rules allowing them to be used in combat (brass orb, death globe, doom rocket). A lot of the rules out there are not blacl/white, they are meant to be vague.

With Skaven, the items you reference are awesome. So think of them as template shots IE ranged attacks. Can you shoot from the outside of combat into combat with slaves? yes this can be down with other sources of shooting. Can you shoot from inside the same combat? Likely not, there is no rule allowing you to utilize those items written allowing their usage inside of combat.

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Made in us
Raging Ravener



Raleigh, NC

Editted, all done with this thread. Thanks!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/09/10 19:49:23


TL : DR - Shorthand for ""Hi, I am a miserable cretin of the Internet that must be spoon-fed pictures and factoids or I will piss myself."

 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight



Houston, Texas

Arcane items are different as they cast spells.

Thats a whole nother monster.

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