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I was hoping if someone could give me a general idea on how to combat my buddies Ork Kans Wall. We will be playing 1000 pts.

Ork Army
>2-3 Full Ork Boy Squads (Powerklaw, Bosspole)
- x2 - Sluggas
- x1 Shoots
>Big Mek w/ KFF
>6-9 Killer Kans (Armed with Rokkitts)
>Grot Squad to Hold back Objective

He generally attaches the Big Mek to a squad and creates a the Kans Wall with his boys behind. It is a pretty impentrable wall, and has proved very very difficult to crack.

My Army
Rune Priest

x3 GH (Powerfist, Melta, Rhino, MoW, Wolf Standard) (8 GH in each squad)

LF w/ 5 MLs, Razorback (HB)

Wolf Guard (3 w/ Powerfist, Combi-Melta)
-One goes with each GH squad

This army runs just a little over 1000 pts, but that is okay with my friend, he is generally over a bit as well.

So with these lists in mind, any tactics anyone can reccommend? Rune Priest Power I should take? I was thinking Murderous Hurricane and possibly Living Lightning. I have found Jaws to be hit or miss, and my friend is probably expecting I will be taking it. Also Jaws won't affect the Walkers, so it is a little useless. There was also the idea that I pick up a Vindicare Assassin (I know not Rule Legal, yet under house rules it is). And the Vindicare would be used to target the Mek and take him out. Any and all advice would be perfect! Thank You in advance gents.

The Vindicare is a pretty good option, but it would be a bit of a point sink if he doesn't perform up to standard. Use him to take out the KFF and once thats sorted, he could even try taking on a Kan with his Turbo Penetrator bolt: rolling 3D6 penetration against AV11 with Rending almost guarantees a penetrating hit.

I would also suggest that you change the Power Fists on the Wolf Guard into Chain Fists. They give extra penetrating power for only a slightly higher points cost.

Also, if you're going against 2-3 full mobs of Boyz, it may be worth investing in a Whirlwind. People usually say they're crap, whereas I love them. You have a cheap 5" blast that can hammer them from 48" away which will kill even Nobs on a 3+ allowing no saves.

As Space Wolves we have something akin to the Vindicare Assassin that doesn't require and Inquisitor: Jaws of the World Wolf. I would drive my Rhino up 12" the first turn so you make sure you can line up the shot on the sole Big Mek. Once you unleash that...you have something of a ~66% chance that homeboy isn't going to be there and a few Kans will be gone in the process. Once he is gone...the rest is just up to your shooting to take down the cans and out maneuver the Boyz. I would recommend in this case to take Jaws and Murderous Hurricane as your Psychic Powers so you can take out the Big Mek and Nobz with Jaws and then use Hurricane to slow down the advance of the boyz as they cross the field.

Valkyrie wrote:The Vindicare is a pretty....

.... terrible option DO NOT WAST POINTS ON HIM.

Space wolves have lots of options ...
Thunder wolves strike at str10 with a fist.
Or much cheaper are Lonewolves + pair of wolves. They reroll to hit Vs walkers (amongst others) have FnP and eternal warrior. (just make sure they don’t charge the full 3)

At range you must kill the Mek first. Hit his ride with ever anti tank weapon you have and the hit his unit with everything left (whirlwinds work nice for this but not every one likes/ has it)

Well, if you want a Vindicare, then you first need an Inquisitor.
Or did they change the rule here?

Still need the Inquisitor.

And I would say he is perfectly fine with list he has...if anything, he could do for some flamers to help out with the horde control; however, if he gets rid of the Nobz with Power Klaws, he could just ride incircles chewing up the Boyz Squads.

Tri wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:The Vindicare is a pretty....

.... terrible option DO NOT WAST POINTS ON HIM.

Space wolves have lots of options ...
Thunder wolves strike at str10 with a fist.
Or much cheaper are Lonewolves + pair of wolves. They reroll to hit Vs walkers (amongst others) have FnP and eternal warrior. (just make sure they don’t charge the full 3)

At range you must kill the Mek first. Hit his ride with ever anti tank weapon you have and the hit his unit with everything left (whirlwinds work nice for this but not every one likes/ has it)

Hmm dont kans have S10? that would negate FnP right? or does EW prevent that?

Still a chainfist lonewolf could easily eat though their armor

Simple Basic Grey Hunters

Put a Wolf Guard with them with Close Combat load out [Wolf Claw, Thunder Hammer, Power Fist, Frost Blade ect].
Maybe a Wolf Priest
Other Good Weapon for the Characters: Combi-Plasmas
Get 4 things
-Plasma Guns/Pistol Pistol
-Power Weapon/Power Fist
-MotW
-Wolf Standard

The Plasma will ignore FNP along with being able to punch the Killer Kans at range.

Don’t worry about them getting close

On your turn wait until your Assault Phase the turn Before he is going to Assault and Activate your Wolf Standard.

He now has 2 Choices
1] Charge into you, if you succeed in your Counter Attack Roll is will still be as if you Assaulted him, You will go 1st and Re-Roll any “Ones”, this includes To Hit Rolls, Damage Rolls, the number of Attacks on your MotW, Armor Saves and Sweeping Advance Rolls.

2] Wait one turn for the Standard to wear off and that gives you one more turn of Plasma fire

kenshin620 wrote:

Tri wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:The Vindicare is a pretty....

.... terrible option DO NOT WAST POINTS ON HIM.

Space wolves have lots of options ...
Thunder wolves strike at str10 with a fist.
Or much cheaper are Lonewolves + pair of wolves. They reroll to hit Vs walkers (amongst others) have FnP and eternal warrior. (just make sure they don’t charge the full 3)

At range you must kill the Mek first. Hit his ride with ever anti tank weapon you have and the hit his unit with everything left (whirlwinds work nice for this but not every one likes/ has it)

Hmm dont kans have S10? that would negate FnP right? or does EW prevent that?

Still a chainfist lonewolf could easily eat though their armor

Yep thats what the wolves are for attack from the kan kills a wolf off then you strike. FNP is to help with the shots that come after they've killed a kan or two.

Okay, I read all the advice.

About the Vindicare
Our house rules allow me to use him without an inquisitor...as stated in the OP

Jaws doesn't work on Walkers to my knowledge? Also I have a 50% chance to sink the Mek (In 3), although it seems the dice god do no favor me for that Mek has survived 4 Jaws hits.

Flamers vs Melta...
The reason I picked up so many melta is due to the fact that I would be facing the Kans wall with probably something like 9 Kans.

Game Plan
I will probably have two of my GH go to one side of his flank, trying to get shots on the side armor of the Kans. I would then rush my rune priest in a rhino with GH to the front of the Wall and try to Jaws his Mek. I may possibly drop one Wolf Guard and maybe switch one Melta to a flamer and see if that gives me enough points for a Whirlwind. I have always wanted to field a whirlwind and I remember in 4th (way back when) I use to love them due to the mines....which no longer exist! Anyway, The lone wolf seems like a good idea but I need to take down the Wall ASAP once the game begins, so anything that may take away from that won't help.....aka rushing his wall with my lone wolf.

One think with the Lone Wolf, once he engages the KK Squadren they will get "Stuck in" until one or the other is Dead.

Anpu42 wrote:One think with the Lone Wolf, once he engages the KK Squadren they will get "Stuck in" until one or the other is Dead.

Yes, that is an issue because more than likely the 3 Kans, or even 2 Kans will probably take him out, or at least have a very good chance at it.

Killer Cans only have a Armor of 11

This is one of the cases I would take a Lone Wolf with a Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield

If you take the Terminator Armor Option go with the Chain Fist/Storm Shield.

Remember with his Beast Slayer he get to reroll the To Hit Rolls.

If you go with the MotW option he will get 1d6+2 Rending Attacks [with Rerolls] on the charge. If you pull of a rend or three at the least you will get a Glancing Hit 1/3 of the time and a Penetrating hit 2/3 of the time.

I'm not seeing why the answer isn't simply to use Missile Launcher Long Fangs, but maybe I missed something.

S8 vs AV11 is bound to get you some kill shots early on and you can drop Frags on the exposed infantry once you get the Kans down.

minigun762 wrote:I'm not seeing why the answer isn't simply to use Missile Launcher Long Fangs, but maybe I missed something.

S8 vs AV11 is bound to get you some kill shots early on and you can drop Frags on the exposed infantry once you get the Kans down.

KFF Big Mek gives Kans +4 Cover Save if within 6", 5+ Save if part of squadron with one Kans within 6".

For the Rune Priest
-Master of Runes
-Murderous Hurricane and go for the Boyz
-Storm Caller to protect some of your units

OR

Just take Njal


Here is a completely Direction

Get some Wolf Scouts with a MotW, armed with Bolt Pistols, Close Combat Weapons and a Flamer lead by a Wolf Priest with Saga of the Hunter and a Wolf Guard with MotW.

Come up behind his “Wall and Feast on the Grots. After this, he will start to really watch his backfield.

MadMaverick76 wrote:

minigun762 wrote:I'm not seeing why the answer isn't simply to use Missile Launcher Long Fangs, but maybe I missed something.

S8 vs AV11 is bound to get you some kill shots early on and you can drop Frags on the exposed infantry once you get the Kans down.

KFF Big Mek gives Kans +4 Cover Save if within 6", 5+ Save if part of squadron with one Kans within 6".

I thought it was always just a 5+ cover save... Hmm I'll have to go reread that section. With a 5+ save, I would have thought that volume of fire would have saved the day.

Kans need a 5+ to hit the Lone Wolf in Combat as he is WS 5. Additionally, if he takes Chain Fist and Storm Shield he'd walk through those Kans like nobodies business. Jaws doesn't work on Walkers; however, that doesn't deter from the fact that is indispensable for taking out Power Klaws and KFF Meks.

Just a few thoughts...

minigun762 wrote:
KFF Big Mek gives Kans +4 Cover Save if within 6", 5+ Save if part of squadron with one Kans within 6".

minigun762 wrote:
I thought it was always just a 5+ cover save... Hmm I'll have to go reread that section. With a 5+ save, I would have thought that volume of fire would have saved the day.

I've encoutered a spate of people over the past month who think it's 5+ for vehicles, do by chance browse another forum, one that has people spruiking this idea on it?

Well, the kans will always have a 4+ cover from the KFF. It is simply stated that any units within 6" get a 5+ cover save, and vehicles count as being obscured. There is nothing that says anything about vehicles only receiving a 5+.

As for taking down this list, you need to take as much medium to long range firepower as you can to take down the kans. Medium high strength shots en masse will take them out, no matter of the KFF, its only a 4+ and just how many saves can you make on that? Take as many str 5+ shots as you can, preferably str 6, and remember kans die on an immobilized result or better unless down to the last model, so a glancing hit can still kill them on a result of 6.

After that all those shots can be focused at the mobz of boys coming at you, and lets say you took those missile launchers at str 6, well now you have several template weapons to fire off into large mobz, and you probably wont miss even if you scatter. I would also equip the grey hunters with flamers instead of meltas, which would help negate the KFF, however if you are that close you had better be charging or your in trouble.

The other thing that is most important is to always get the charge, never allow a mob of boyz to charge you! You will win almost every time if you charge, and lose almost every time you get charged. Furious charge and the extra attack from charging is a very important part of the orks arsenal, and to negate that is bad for them.

On the subject of the Kans wall....it works like this....

infantry units within 6" receive a 5+ save...

Walkers within the 6" receive a obscured....

With Squadrons of Kans, only the Kans within the 6" get an obscured rating, while the other Kans in the squadron receive a 5+ save....this was how the rule was worked out on this forum....

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/274199.page

ChrisCP wrote:
I've encoutered a spate of people over the past month who think it's 5+ for vehicles, do by chance browse another forum, one that has people spruiking this idea on it?

I'm quite active on B&C but my misunderstanding came from reading the rule too quickly. I missed the obscured portion and thought that it was a 5+ save for everything.

Having said that, I revise my previous statement. My new advice is to think about some Whirlwinds to bombard the exposed infantry behind the wall and ignore the KFF. This should free you up for an assault from your mechanized GH supported by either the wolf cavalry or your HQ units. Power Fists, MotW and alot of Krak Grenades should do the job, especially since you get to swing before him with most of those attacks. Either use normal Marines (1 wound) or units immune to insta-death to remove the main advantages of those S10 DCCWs.

Or a Rifleman Dread or Two

I think for the points, I may be leaning towards the Lone Wolf right now...I believe he has a very good chance at taking out two of the Kans in his initial assault, possibly even three. I was trying to avoid puting him in termie armor, but that may be a viable idea. Also while on the topic, I think once my list jumps to 1500 pts. I will probably add a vindi, another LF, and probably either TWC or a BC w/ WP.....

I second the Whirlwind: that large blast that ignores cover will thin the Orks while you plink the Killa Kans out.

Something to consider about the Killa Kans is that being in a Squadron is hazardous to their health. Immobilized Damage results convert to Destroyed (Wrecked) results, but only while they're 2+ in number. So if you have something like a unit of Long Fangs armed with Missile Launchers, those initial salvos can break a squadron of Kans.

List vs Orks Kan Wall...or well possibly anything really

SW List (990 Pts)
2x Rune Priests
- MH/JW
- JW/LL

2x GH (9 GHs)
- Melta, PF, Rhino, Wolf Standard, Motw

LF
-5 ML's

-Whirlwind
-Vindicator

Total Points: 990 Pts.


I would put a Rune priest with each GH in a Rhino. The Vindicator would move forward with the rhinos. Shooting would see the Rune priests attempting to snipe the Mek with Jaws. The Vindicator would template the Hordes/Kans. The Whirlwinds would probably start placing fire on the Lootas first turn. The LF would also fire Frag missiles against the horde with the Mek to help whittle down the numbers, from experience a salvo of 5 Frag missiles on a horde has roughly wiped 8-10 even with the cover saves. Any other ideas gents?

I am kind of digging this list very much so.

As an ork player I fear either indirect fire that goes over the kan wall or deepstrikers that get behind the line (which is why it's good to have something like grots or fast attacks behind the line to speed bump a surprise attack). The whole point of a kan wall is that I'm spending alot of points to create a line of blockers to give me some saves versus enemy shooting to my ork payload and control assaults so that I get the charge. If your tactic somehow ignores the wall it will probably fall apart pretty quickly.

phillosmaster wrote:As an ork player I fear either indirect fire that goes over the kan wall or deepstrikers that get behind the line (which is why it's good to have something like grots or fast attacks behind the line to speed bump a surprise attack). The whole point of a kan wall is that I'm spending alot of points to create a line of blockers to give me some saves versus enemy shooting to my ork payload and control assaults so that I get the charge. If your tactic somehow ignores the wall it will probably fall apart pretty quickly.

Thank you sir. I think this army list will do very well actually, but only time will tell. I have to buy a vindicator before the weekend! Anyway, my general army list almost got wiped by his Kan wall due to the rokkitts on the Kans, so hopefully trading in some troops for some more HS will help tons.