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Hi All,
Had a largeish battle against DA today and found myself, during my own turn 7 with less than my phase out count of 19 Necrons, after a Veil Lord took the words 'Danger close' a little literally and DSed into a gang of Deathwing termies.

My question is this: When do you phase out? The instant the magic '25%' Necron is permamently killed? Or do you wait until the start of your next turn, even as in this case there wasn't going to be one and no Necrons could make WBB due to the nature of their deaths? So in this case should I have played on or admitted defeat after the death of the Lord and his squad?

Thanks in advance.

My (older version of the current codex) states blatantly in the last sentence of the Phase Out rules that it is after We'll Be Back rolls.

Maybe it got muddled in the re-print?

I have the newer version and I'm pretty sure it says the exact same thing.

You check for phase out AFTER all WBB checks have been made, and WBB checks are made at the start of the Necron players turn. So you do not phase out at any other point than your own turn, after checking for WBB and making any applicable rolls, including the portal reroll.

The exact wording in my codex says:

'If, after making all We'll Be Back! rolls, a Necron army is reduced to 25% or less of its original number of models (in other words, 75% of its models, rounding fractions up, are destroyed), it will disappear in an eerie fashion, leaving behind nothing of its presence.'

Taken as read this would mean that if you make it past turn 7's WBB rolls without phasing out, you would then be immune to phase out during the remainder of a standard mission, as you will not have another opportunity to make WBB rolls because there will be no additional turns to make them on (I'm basing this on the Necron player going first).

So as my little accident occured during the movement phase of turn 7, would it have no affect on the phase out of the army?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:You check for phase out AFTER all WBB checks have been made, and WBB checks are made at the start of the Necron players turn. So you do not phase out at any other point than your own turn, after checking for WBB and making any applicable rolls, including the portal reroll.

I presume then you must take a 'blind' approach when coming to the start of your turn and WBB rolls. E.g. your losses for your previous turn were all caused by demolisher shells (S10) and as you had no res orb these casualties pushed you well below your phase out number, the necron army would be ignorant of these losses or 'blind' until a WBB 'assessment' was made at the start of your next turn. Thus if you had gone first, the 'below phase out' Necron army would continue to fight as normal through your opponents turn. The Necrons would then 'notice' the losses the player already knew about and phase out accordingly?

Does that make any sense?

I can sort of imagine the in charge Lord pausing at the start of each turn and working out who was dead and who was just damaged, then calling 'retreat' at the required level

Yep, the Necrons only take tactical assesment of whether they should withdraw (through phase out) on their turn.

If you are not at phase out your turn 7 you will not phase out.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yep, the Necrons only take tactical assesment of whether they should withdraw (through phase out) on their turn.

If you are not at phase out your turn 7 you will not phase out.

Thanks nosferatu, thats how I thought it would work.

Just to throw a hypothetical cat amongst the pigeons....

Where does it say in the codex that phase out is a tactical assessment by the lord rather than an involuntary reaction to casualties suffered?
My point being that if it is involuntary then technicaly in the 'cron t7 then all wbb rolls that can be taken already have been, so, by the raw, as soon as the force drops below 25% they will phase out regardless?

Just throwing it out there........

Because the rule isnt written such that that can happen.

Phase out is calculated after WBB rolls, on the necron players turn. It is not calculated at any other time.

nos has it spot on as usual. You only Phase out after all WBB rolls are taken, and that is done in the movement phase.

konort ranger wrote:Just to throw a hypothetical cat amongst the pigeons....

Where does it say in the codex that phase out is a tactical assessment by the lord rather than an involuntary reaction to casualties suffered?
My point being that if it is involuntary then technicaly in the 'cron t7 then all wbb rolls that can be taken already have been, so, by the raw, as soon as the force drops below 25% they will phase out regardless?

Just throwing it out there........

Slow day at work?

The principle is you may know the Necrons are finished and cannot get back above phase out, but they don't until the start of their next turn, when WBB is checked.
I know you hate my 'overpowered' codex with a passion, but its the rules

Spose the rule as intended then is 'immediately after all wbb rolls' rather than an (admittedly loose) argument that 'after' could mean any time in the turn?

Not trying to be difficult, just play against 'crons a lot so can see this occuring again


Edit: Ninja'd by the dirty Xeno in question lol

Given you only are given permission to calculate PO after WBB rolls have been made, and they are made before doing anything else, to calculate PO at any other time is against the rules (you have no permission to do so)

THink of PO as a variable that is reset to null if PO is not met.

Point well made sir. Thanks for clearing that up for us

Gwar! wrote:nos has it spot on as usual. You only Phase out after all WBB rolls are taken, and that is done in the movement phase.

Actually, WBB occurs at the start of the Necron player's turn before any units have moved.

This prevents a Necron player from moving a model into WBB range of a downed model at the start of the turn to get a WBB roll you would not be able to take.

time wizard wrote:

Gwar! wrote:nos has it spot on as usual. You only Phase out after all WBB rolls are taken, and that is done in the movement phase.

Actually, WBB occurs at the start of the Necron player's turn before any units have moved.

This prevents a Necron player from moving a model into WBB range of a downed model at the start of the turn to get a WBB roll you would not be able to take.

That still happens in the movement phase. There is no "Start of the turn phase" like in Fantasy (iirc).

Gwar! wrote:That still happens in the movement phase. There is no "Start of the turn phase" like in Fantasy (iirc).

Agreed, however saying it happens "during the movement phase" could be interpreted to mean that you roll for reserves, bring them on, move units and then make WBB rolls.

Plust the Necron Codex says "At the start of every Necron turn, damaged Necrons may self repair."

Wheras the BRB says under Rolling for Reserves that "At the start of each of his Movement phases except for the first, before moving any unit, the player must roll a dice for each of his units in reserve."

Not trying to argue or belabor the point, just stating that the rules specify when WBB rolls are to be made, and this can certainly affect Phase out.